Belted Headspace

[Gmac]

Are you measuring brass that you fired in your chamber? Spinning the barrel an 1/8 of a turn just because the stamp wasn't aligned to the stock isn't really a measurement... essentially it's a guess. And then checking with brass that isn't fired in your chamber (ultimately 2-3 times) isn't going to give the most accurate indication of true headspace.

I'm not saying it won't work and function, just saying that it seems you're trading one unknown for another unknown. Why not try some new factory loaded ammo first and then reevaluate?

Best of luck in resolving your situation.

 

[TR1Hemi]

It's resolved. No I didnt "just" turn the barrel 1/8 of a turn in to make the barrel stamp line up with the stock better. But isn't that a coincidence? Really it began as a need to unprime some sketchy ammo (one was a fire formed 7mm case, with virtually no neck) that came with a used rifle. It was then that I noticed the primers backed out .011". Then came the realization that this was an oops rifle, maybe why the guy sold it. Brand new Peterson long brass, still chambers. Thus confirming this was an issue. A test fire of a primed piece of brass revealed zero primer back out. Another confirmation it "had" excessive headspace. Measurements of the belt depth in the barrel, and bolt face depth revealed that the machine work was perfect. It was either assembled poorly or been apart by a previous owner.

Now I didnt waste powder and primers on a questionable rifle, and I can proceed as if it was a new out of the box rifle.

Did you know the headspace on an M61A1 Vulcan 20mm cannon is controlled by depth micrometer measurements and adjusted with a stainless steel laminated shim?

 

[dennisinaz]

The "method" I was referring to is using something of dubious nature to set headspace (unknown piece of brass). Use a gage.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

I've always used a heat gun on the stainless nut. Get it hot to touch and the nut releases much easier.

Evidently, Savage uses some sort of thread locking material in the barrel nut and at the plug in the rear of the bolt. I have a Savage 110 FP 308 Heavy barrel where Bubba dinged the ring up. Looks like he put something in the grooves and commenced to hammer.

We heated the barrel nut and removed the ring on a 110 in 270 Win. without drama. The willowy nature of Midway's barrel wrench suggests heat.

Back at the dawn of time we had a built up 338 Magnum rifle come through the shop on consignment. The rifle was barrelled up by P.O. Ackley. Our gunsmith found the gun had excessive headspace using a button head space gauge. We wondered if that was done to have case located by shoulder rather than the belt. The guy who brought the rifle did not look concerned.

 

[TR1Hemi]

The "method" I was referring to is using something of dubious nature to set headspace (unknown piece of brass). Use a gage.

People have been using new brass to headspace barrels on Pre-Fit Savages for years. Hence the name Pre-Fit. Actually it is standard practice for those with out the need for a special 1 or 2 time use gauge is to set it with tape on the shoulder. At any rate my headspace is smaller than it was, it was either a factory oops, or had been apart, or rebarreled a some point, prior to me getting it.

Evidently, Savage uses some sort of thread locking material in the barrel nut and at the plug in the rear of the bolt. I have a Savage 110 FP 308 Heavy barrel where Bubba dinged the ring up. Looks like he put something in the grooves and commenced to hammer.

Ouch. There is a limit to getting a job done without a special tool. I have heard of that practice. I actually have a blued nut on it's way in case we had to resort to sacrificing it. Now I have a spare. I had the barrel nut wrench, for builds, but had never taken a factory barrel off. I did not want t jack up the nice blueing, so rather than buying an action or barrel vice, a friend came by with his. One wack it was free, sans scratches. He told me not to bother getting an action wrench, I could use it whenever. After that the barrel moved freely by hand. Cakewalk after that. Some quick measurements, and it was back together in an hour, just a little tighter than before.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Ouch. There is a limit to getting a job done without a special tool. I have heard of that practice. I actually have a blued nut on it's way in case we had to resort to sacrificing it

Maybe, I'm missing something here. The collar was heated to weaken the bond of the thread lock used to anchor the collar. Here, the same collar went back into the action with the aftermarket barrel. Nothing was sacrificed or defaced. Had heat not been used it would have been necessary to use a pipe wrench. The barrelled receiver was held in a padded bench vice.

 

[WildRose]

So I picked up some 300 Win brass, it came with 7 loaded rounds. One of which was a 7mm brass that was apparently fire formed and loaded as a 300, talk about a SHORT neck, lol. Anyway I used my mistake hammer and unloaded them. They were 150gr bullets, the seven rounds held 435gr of extruded powder, or 62gr per round, no idea what that could be. So in the campfire it goes. Now what to do with the 6 primed cases? I decided since I did not trust any aspect of these loads I would just pop them out the back door. Gotta love living in the country...lol. Did you know a LR primer will shoot a 2" flame out of a 24" barrel! LOL. When I looked at the brass the primers were sticking out 10-11 thou! I have overthought this, read, overthought it some more. The only thing that makes sense is that, THAT is the headspace of this factory Savage 111, 24" light Sporter, .550" at the muzzle. I though well I'll set it back a bit. I have a Savage barrel wrench, but that sucker is on there tighter than "putting the receiver in a padded vice" can handle. Any one in west central Nebraska want to take a crack at loosening it, or can someone advise on a barrel vise that will work on a barrel with that much taper?

Leave it alone. Your problem is the light loads not forcing the brass back into the bolt face.

If it's working right with your loaded ammo and factory ammo you have no problem.

 

[bigngreen]

Leave it alone. Your problem is the light loads not forcing the brass back into the bolt face.

If it's working right with your loaded ammo and factory ammo you have no problem.

Which is showing out of spec head space!!

 

[WildRose]

Which is showing out of spec head space!!

When did you run the go and NG gauges through it?

If it cycles properly with factory ammo there isn't a problem.

 

[Hugnot]

I don't have a Savage but when I F/L size its headspace on the shoulder vs. belt for .300WM. I use a feeler gauge & set the my F/L die .005 above the shell holder. That shell holder is only used for my .300WM loads & is stored in the same box as the .300WM F/L die. Peterson long .300WM brass would be best. It's that head separaration thing.

 

[bigngreen]

When did you run the go and NG gauges through it?

If it cycles properly with factory ammo there isn't a problem.

The amount the primer is sticking out in a situation like this is essentially your headspace. I much prefer to use a guage BUT in the end the only thing that matters is brass life and die fit which you can ant much tighter than this is

 

[WildRose]

The amount the primer is sticking out in a situation like this is essentially your headspace. I much prefer to use a guage BUT in the end the only thing that matters is brass life and die fit which you can ant much tighter than this is

So as usual you're just blowing smoke.

Thanks for clearing that up.

This is just one of the reasons it's a bad idea to shoot other people's reloads, or to reload your own with brass fired in other chambers.

 

[bigngreen]

So as usual you're just blowing smoke.

Thanks for clearing that up.

This is just one of the reasons it's a bad idea to shoot other people's reloads, or to reload your own with brass fired in other chambers.

Your kinda making an *** out of yourself for no good reason other than you don't like someone calling you on your BS, don't make the OP suffer for your ignorance!!

 

[WildRose]

Your kinda making an *** out of yourself for no good reason other than you don't like someone calling you on your BS, don't make the OP suffer for your ignorance!!

When you've had your hands on the gun and tried your go-ng gauges on it be sure and let us know.

Does the gun function properly with factory ammo and reloads using once fired brass formed in it's own chamber?