Bear spray vs Bullets

[Pdvdh]

All of them I know who live in bear country also carry a rifle and/or 12g with slugs too, particularly on years when their natural food sources are in short supply.

Some bears aren't easily bluffed, and are only stopped by death.
I'd hate to be reliant on an air horn while a predatory bear was ripping muscle off my bones.

 

[biff's reloading]

It's funny how this subject always draws out a lot of "passionate "discussion".

When I first got to Montana many years ago, I bought a Ruger Redhawk 41 (beautiful gun, loved it) for the express purpose of bear defense while fishing in Griz country, usually the Dearborn River on the Eastern Front. I lived n Great Falls then. Walking through thick willows in Griz country can be a little un-nerving. The 41 made me feel better.

The more time I spent in bear country, the less nervous I became, and over the years I spent a good deal of time in bear country, especially in the Beartooths, Absorkees, Gallatins and Madison ranges after I moved to Bozeman. Most of the time I did not carry gun or spray and had numerous encounters with bears usually at a comfortable distance, especially when fishing in the Park (Yellowstone).

One interesting encounter happened while I was fishing, hiking up stream on the Yellowstone from Tower Falls in YNP back country. Wasn't carrying anything but my fly rod and my head was down on the trail when all of a sudden I saw a dark blur go by me on my left. It was about a 200 lb blackie in full gallop that passed about 20' to my left. I have fished slough creek quite a bit and about half my trips up there I see bears, sometimes multiple. After a while I decided maybe I should carry some protection as the odds might catch up to me someday. (And BTW, I have had as many or more bear encounters in my back yard as I have in the back country.)

Well back then you could not carry firearms in the park so I got some bear spray. Ok, so reading through this thread so far I have not noticed anyone making the distinction between different types of spray. There is a huge difference. UDAP and Counter Assault are more of a vapor than a spray and they get into your breathing passages and lungs, and mess you up big time. I know this because I tested UDAP myself once. On a calm day I squeezed the trigger for less than half a second and in less than half a second it shot out a burst that went about 30' and was about 6-8' in diameter. Just then a very light breeze started blowing it back in my direction so I retreated until the orange cloud disappeared. Then I walked back to the spot where I originally discharged it. Although I no longer saw any sign of it, I started choking and gagging and became nauseous. I felt very crappy for a couple of hours. These sprays are totally different than the sprays that are basically skin irritants. For any of you that have been through tear gas training (I have), I would say it was similar to that but a good bit more intense. A few years ago, some high school kid thought he would have some fun and discharged some UDAP into the bleachers of a football game. Several people were taken the the ER of the hospital.

So I know a few of you boys posting to this thread and I'll make a friendly little wager with anyone who wants to take me up. My $1000 to your $100, you stand 20' away from me and on the word "go", I start spraying and if you can get to me and grab the can in my hand you get my $1K, if not, I get your $100.

I think my Montana, Wyoming and Idaho buddies will agree that the vast majority of bear attacks in this country happen to hunters, usually bow hunters calling elk. Bottom line, being in bear country is probably a lot less dangerous than driving home from a New Years Eve party dodging drunks.

I would take that wager...on one condition... you use your deterrent of choice, I use mine. From a 20 yard starting charge, we meet in the middle, and winner takes all. Deal? kidding of course, but perspectives are different when your opponent is actually trying to kill you, and is capable of it! I'd never bring a knife to a gun fight, nor would I bring a can of hairspray to a bear fight. Weird to me how many folks bet their life on a can of aerosol.

 

[JKB57]

the best defense is a 12ga with slugs and 00 buck

 

[Muddyboots]

Another revival:

 

[biff's reloading]

That's very true, but "toughness" does not matter. Bears are a lot tougher than skunks but they steer clear of them. The UDAP type products get into airways and lungs and eyes, unlike other types of spray. This is very unpleasant to bears or anything else for that matter. Many bears have been deterred by these types of sprays and to the best of my knowledge they have not failed to turn away a bear when the person has had enough time to deploy the spray.

Except humans arent skunks to a bear...we are a hairless, wimpy critter that smells like food, and one the bear rarely/never has encountered.

 

[biff's reloading]

Another revival:
View attachment 334599

It's fun tho. I really enjoy reading these kinds of threads when adults can debate and spar thoughts a bit. I'd rather the old thread come back up for lots of past perspective included, instead of just rehashing it over n over in new blank space.

 

[Muddyboots]

Haha! For sure. If I had one choice? 12 GA slug, homemade hard cast at 1400fps.

 

[HARPERC]

Ever hear the tape of Timothy Treadwell, and his girlfriend being eaten alive.

Transcends theory and rhetoric.

Spoiler alert just playing dead didn't help.

 

[biff's reloading]

"The claim that bear spray works better than a firearm to protect you from bears is junk science" - The Truth About Guns

Back in 2015, Jake Purlee and his friends were hunting elk and wolves. Encountering evidence of bears, they decided to leave the area. The two hunters and two companions were returning to their truck after an exhausting and wet hunt in fog and a foot of snow. They were attacked by a sow grizzly...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

https://pistolwizard.com/studies/bears

"While people claim that bear spray is more effective than firearms for defense against bears, actual studies do not show that to be true. The misunderstanding is caused by comparing studies of bear spray use against non-aggressive bears to defensive uses of firearms against actual attacking bears."

Fact check: Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska (2008) shows bear spray was 3 for 9 vs. charging grizzlies when people had time to use their spray. The study did not include data on incidents when people did not have time to use their spray or the "success" rate for bear spray would be lower.
Fifty of 72 incidents involved bears that were acting curious or seeking garbage or food before being sprayed. It is unethical and moronic to compare the results of the Alaska bear spray study to the results of the Alaska firearms study, which examined 269 carefully selected incidents involving gun use during "bear attacks."

I'd carry both. If a bear is in a garbage can or just being curious and hes downwind, spray as soon as itll reach. But if he is being aggressive and knows what I am and still is coming, I'm plugging him. Period. Dont care what the game warden thinks.

Handgun or Pistol Defense Against Bear Attack: 73 cases, 96% Effective

Another ten cases have been added to the cases where pistols or handguns were used in defense against bear attacks. The total now is 73 cases. There were 3 failures. Handguns were 96% effective.

www.ammoland.com

 

[L.Sherm]

People always use the scenario of a charging bear, what if the bear already has your hunting partner or kid down on the ground.
I know the guy very well who shot the G- bear off his son about 4 years ago in the Hungry Horse Reservoir in N.W Montana, I doudt you would wanna rely on bear spray in that scenario.

 

[Muddyboots]

So what do you think? I have a .357 loaded with 180gr Partitions (stocked up on clearance years ago) which is a thumper out of my 686+. I also have 187gr hard cast and it is a thumper too. I leaning towards the hard cast.

 

[WildRose]

So what do you think? I have a .357 loaded with 180gr Partitions (stocked up on clearance years ago) which is a thumper out of my 686+. I also have 187gr hard cast and it is a thumper too. I leaning towards the hard cast.

Either should be adequate at least for black bears in a defensive situation.

I carry either a .41 or .44mag down here for big hogs or when I'm in bear country.

 

[Hand Skills]

I would take that wager...on one condition... you use your deterrent of choice, I use mine. From a 20 yard starting charge, we meet in the middle, and winner takes all. Deal? kidding of course, but perspectives are different when your opponent is actually trying to kill you, and is capable of it! I'd never bring a knife to a gun fight, nor would I bring a can of hairspray to a bear fight. Weird to me how many folks bet their life on a can of aerosol.

Haha, hairspray. That's funny. Might actually be more effective than bear spray (when coupled with a source of ignition, of course).

Autocorrect

 

[WildRose]

Haha, hairspray. That's funny. Might actually be more effective than bear spray. When coupled with a source of ignition, of course.

Autocorrect

Just have a lighter handy too... . Beauty Shop Napalm!