Bear protection handguns?

[Pdvdh]

You guys are all correct, however I'm going to stay with my model 29 5". Auto stuffers under most conditions are extremely reliable but after teaching firearms for almost 40 years at a POST certified academy, I can tell you that they still do, in fact, have the occasional stoppage even in perfect conditions. Whether it's ammo, firearm or shooter induced is sort of irrelevant. Most folks do not practice or even know how to properly clear a stoppage and I have seen many an untrained individual make the situation worse by improper clearing methods. Revolvers can also malfunction but the biggest concern for a properly maintained wheel gun is a failure to fire. The malfunction clearing drill for that (DA) is to just pull the trigger again, which can be done with one hand. CQB with a big bruin might increase the chances for a shooter induced stoppage and it generally takes two hands (or one hand and one of something else) to clear it which may or may not be available if a big bear is sitting on your chest. There is also the fact that most folks get wrapped around the axle over big magnum velocity, which by physics increases recoil. Randy Garrett of Garrett ammo proved along time ago that a heavy for caliber, properly constructed bullet out a .44 mag at just under a 1000 fps will pass completely trough any bear alive at just about any angle. There are published papers to that effect on Garrett's website and are great reading for aspiring ballisticians. I load a hardcast 320 grain LBT or Montana Bullets at 995 fps and it's surprisingly easy on the hand and gun. It has a big meplat and I have killed numerous very large hogs with that load. Complete pass through is the norm. I teach wound ballistics for a living and have shot a lot of gelatin. I have personally shot that same load completely through two 16" blocks of 10% gel (end to end) and it kept on trucking. My wife handles and shoots that load out of her S&W Mountain Gun and is pretty fast at follow up shots. I'm not against auto loaders if that's what a person wants to carry in bear country but like anything else one needs to consider the worst case scenario.

Right on the money, IMO.

 

[VLD Pilot]

You guys are all correct, however I'm going to stay with my model 29 5". Auto stuffers under most conditions are extremely reliable but after teaching firearms for almost 40 years at a POST certified academy, I can tell you that they still do, in fact, have the occasional stoppage even in perfect conditions. Whether it's ammo, firearm or shooter induced is sort of irrelevant. Most folks do not practice or even know how to properly clear a stoppage and I have seen many an untrained individual make the situation worse by improper clearing methods. Revolvers can aslo malfunction but the biggest concern for a properly maintained wheel gun is a failure to fire. The malfunction clearing drill for that (DA) is to just pull the trigger again, which can be done with one hand. CQB with a big bruin might increase the chances for a shooter induced stoppage and it generally takes two hands (or one hand and one of something else) to clear it which may or may not be available if a big bear is sitting on your chest. There is also the fact that most folks get wrapped around the axle over big magnum velocity, which by physics increases recoil. Randy Garrett of Garrett ammo proved along time ago that a heavy for caliber, properly constructed bullet out a .44 mag at just under a 1000 fps will pass completely trough any bear alive at just about any angle. There are published papers to that effect on Garrett's website and are great reading for aspiring ballisticians. I load a hardcast 320 grain LBT or Montana Bullets at 995 fps and it's surprisingly easy on the hand and gun. It has a big meplat and I have killed numerous very large hogs with that load. Complete pass through is the norm. I teach wound ballistics for a living and have shot a lot of gelatin. I have personally shot that same load completely through two 16" blocks of 10% gel (end to end) and it kept on trucking. My wife handles and shoots that load out of her S&W Mountain Gun and is pretty fast at follow up shots. I'm not against auto loaders if that's what a person wants to carry in bear country but like anything else one needs to consider the worst case scenario.

Well said. Shoot what makes you confident and can shoot accurate. I've shot a few hogs with my 10mm pushing 220 or 230 hardcasts. While I don't like them for hunting, they don't stop. They'll make it where they need to go. I've shot from front to rear on 300- 400 lb hogs with exits out the rear hind quarter. Never found the bullets. Not for hunting IMO as they don't open up. The 200 Federal Fusions work much better for hunting. To make it to the stop switch on a big bear, hardcasts are what are needed.

 

[buzby]

Some very interesting thoughts on ballistics, CNS hits, and how well people shoot handguns.

 

[Little Church Mouse]

There are some on this forum that have no use for the semi auto platform due to possible dependability issues and inferiority to the big bores. Also the non-magnums are also inferior to many for bear defense. Because we're not voting on the matter and it's only opinion and some cases where a 9mm, 10mm or 45 ACP have got the job done without failure, everyone is happy with what they use or carry. I tried the big wheel gun option with less than satisfying results (carrying and slower followup shots mostly). I'd much rather have a shotgun in my hands if ever faced with an attack and I do carry one on my pack on certain hunts. Mostly for a camp gun. Couple years ago a forum member from Alaska posted some of his targets with his big bore wheel gun. He has a range and uses it for hand gun training. He certainly seemed very proficient with it and if I were him, I'd use that gun also. He's the m

There are some on this forum that have no use for the semi auto platform due to possible dependability issues and inferiority to the big bores. Also the non-magnums are also inferior to many for bear defense. Because we're not voting on the matter and it's only opinion and some cases where a 9mm, 10mm or 45 ACP have got the job done without failure, everyone is happy with what they use or carry. I tried the big wheel gun option with less than satisfying results (carrying and slower followup shots mostly). I'd much rather have a shotgun in my hands if ever faced with an attack and I do carry one on my pack on certain hunts. Mostly for a camp gun. Couple years ago a forum member from Alaska posted some of his targets with his big bore wheel gun. He has a range and uses it for hand gun training. He certainly seemed very proficient with it and if I were him, I'd use that gun also. He's the minority of big bore wheel gunners. Most can't put many in the bull with accurate and fast follow ups. Kudos to him for his dedication to make that happen with a big heavy recoil wheel gun. I can get maybe 2 shots in the bull fast but follow ups after that are not where I'd want them on a charge by a bear.

"He's the minority of big bore wheel gunners. Most can't put many in the bull with accurate and fast follow ups."

IMO, a laser on a hand cannon eliminates the time required to get your sight picture lined up in the sights when every second counts.

 

[VLD Pilot]

IMO, a laser on a hand cannon eliminates the time required to get your sight picture lined up in the sights when every second counts.

I have an RMR on one of my 10mm pistols and I really can't acquire the dot fast enough for my liking. I think I'm gonna remove it. Never considered a laser sight frankly because I'm not sure it's legal for use in certain states I hunt.

 

[WYO300RUM]

PMR 30 22 mag

I have one ! Don't use lead Tip ammo. Jams. 1 pound pistol. 3 pd. Trigger. 30 rds. 22 mag. Too much fun.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I feel the same. Even though we supposedly have grizzly where I hunt I actually just carry the Buffalo Bore 9mm Outdoorsman in my Glock 17 if I'm not packing a short levergun in hand. If WA succeeds in importing more of them from MT or Canada as they're proposing, I may be stepping up to the 10mm.

Most likely coming from Wyoming from what I've read. To the north Cascades.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I have an RMR on one of my 10mm pistols and I really can't acquire the dot fast enough for my liking. I think I'm gonna remove it. Never considered a laser sight frankly because I'm not sure it's legal for use in certain states I hunt.

Red dot on my 460 S&W works well with deer (whitetail) but I won't carrying while hunting Mule deer or elk. To heavy. Too slow. Too slow to get back on target from recoil. I know if I have to I can get off two shots with one of my 10mm compared to my 460 S&W or 454 Cassul Ruger Super Redhawk. I'd actually rather carry my Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 mag. Then the previous two.

 

[wilkup]

Most likely coming from Wyoming from what I've ve read. To the north Cascades.

Even better

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

PMR 30 22 mag

We have two PM 30s and I think a dozen + 30rd Magazines. We have them loaded with Speer 22WMR GOLD Dot Personal Protection Short Barrel 40 gr. Jill has one next to her bed with (4) mags so she has 150 shots. Good for intruders BUT not for a BEAR. Although there is a story about an Inuit Indian Young lady hunting White Bear. She shot the White Bear with one shot in the ear. It was a 22WM. She dropped it in his tracks.
We keep another PMR-30 in one of our vehicles with another five 30 round Mags. Might be able to help another person getting carjacked is we are close enough. Have a PMR16 SBR Suppressed Burris Red Dot 3X. in another vehicle with (6) 30 round Mags . this is to help Assist Law Enforcement if the run into a car hijacking/Traffic Stop Gone Wrong AND NEED BACKUP.
The 1K+yds rifles are in their boxes in the back of the vehicle. They only come out if there are long range situations.
Well we live in GA and support our Blue Dept. We don't drive into Atlanta unless we HAVE TO. If we do we come packing!

 

[buzby]

We have two PM 30s and I think a dozen + 30rd Magazines. We have them loaded with Speer 22WMR GOLD Dot Personal Protection Short Barrel 40 gr. Jill has one next to her bed with (4) mags so she has 150 shots. Good for intruders BUT noe for a BEAR. Although there is a story about an Inuit Indian Young lady hunting White Bear. She shot the White Bear with one shot in the ear. It was a 22WM. She dropped it in his tracks.
We keep another PMR-30 in one of our vehicles with another five 30 round Mags. Might be able to help another person getting carjacked is we are close enough. Have a PMR16 SBR Suppressed Burris Red Dot 3X. in another vehicle with (6) 30 round Mags . this is to help Assist Law Enforcement if the run into a car hijacking/Traffic Stop Gone Wrong AND NEED BACKUP.
The 1K+yds rifles are in their boxes in the back of the vehicle. They only come out if there are long range situations.
Well we live in GA and support our Blue Dept. We don't drive into Atlanta unless we HAVE TO. If we do we come packing!

Why do you say not for bear? Did you check out the podcast I linked above? Might change your mind. Bear skulls aren't impenetrable.

 

[HARPERC]

Bear skulls aren't impenetrable.

Actually maybe not every time, but details matter.

 

[HARPERC]

Most likely coming from Wyoming from what I've read. To the north Cascades.

Off the top of my head 6 every year (flexible dependent on mortality). One report was up to 70 (later walked back to 25 for PR). End goal 200. Also in the noise is likely never be seen by the public.

 

[stazmania]

I like to carry a handgun while bow hunting and since it came out it is usually the pmr 30. 2 mag 60 rnds total light weight "great survival tool. If I hunted in big bear country with a I would still carry the pmr but I would add something like a 4' 8 shot revolver 357 mag air weight of course, Heavy for caliber hard cast lead bullets. If i was in a known problem bear area with a bow instead of a rifle the revolver may turn into a short barrel 12 ga. with number 1 buck in a 3" shells. I don't want to carry a giant hand cannon when there is a no to very low chance of an encounter. If I had to pick a handgun to shoot a determined charging large bear it would most likely be a long heavy barreled shroud, muzzle brake. Steel "no air weights" 500 s&w with heavy hard cast lead, that way at least if you missed the CNS your hits would still do life ending damage or skeletal structure damage. Not to mention the deafening, eye brow torching muzzle blast. Of course I would want to shorten the hand gun barrels to 2" when the bear got to hand to claw fighting distance. No matter what gun you pick at least your in the fight and are able to be proactive in your survival, that ability to defend give the mind and body a task to prevent the feeling of helplessness and panic that one would have with no weapon. Just my thoughts and choices.