Barrel to action torque?

[Mram10us]

Stainless on Stainless can be a nightmare if there is no lube. Whether you are dealing with actions or muzzle breaks/tunners on Stainless barrels. You need a high pressure, high temp lube do to heat of the barrel so the lube will not break down.

This lube is outstanding and very affordable, used in the aircraft industry:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AeroShell-...-Pails-/392542227840?var=&hash=item5b65570d80

I have seen some muzzle breaks gaul, stainless on stainless barrels, it is a nightmare to deal with.

Using non trued actions with factory recoil lugs on Remingtons, I get a .002 or less compression when I torque at 60-75 ft/lbs. I thread with pretty tight tolerances.

A friend, Steve Hendry, was Utah State Benchrest Champ many years. Steve was head of the Fighter Aircraft facility in Ogden, Utah for many years, a Tooling engineer. A tooling engineer is a machinists, machinist. Steve warned me about not having enough torque on my barrels, and he torqued all of his barrels at 100 ft/lbs. Steve said that loose fitting barrels were a cause of flyers, they found. Steve used Stolle Panda's, Hall M, and Remington actions.

Steve did not believe in cutting real tight threads(class 3) on non trued actions because there needed to be some slop so things could mate up.

Threading is a science in and of it''s self.

I'd be very curious to see a test regarding torque and if it does get rid of fliers (flyers).
Be careful using the word "slop" around here. I was disciplined for that one

 

[keithcandler]

Mram10us, I am repeating Steve's exact words on the Torque subject to interpretation. I threw it out there due to Steve's incredible experience and shooting career. For a while I was in between lathes and Steve did my work, his barrels were on very tight, and I usually use 60-75 ft/lbs on my Torque wrench on custom and Remington actions.

Steve's comment on torque and flyers would probably be a 5 hour conversation at least, thread fit, action trued or not, thread pitch dia. Steve's rifles shot very, very well in benchrest matches.

From torquing so many bolts on aircraft, Steve may have been heavy handed on barrel torque, I suspected. When I took a barrel off my Stolle Panda that Steve had torqued on with what felt like a 6' cheater bar, I put it back on with 60 Ft/lbs.

A lot of this stuff is subjective. I like to stress the use of a good high pressure/high heat lube that will not break dowin under heat and stress of which there are many.

Savage Stainless barrel nuts need lube on them when used on Stainless barrels, and it is very important to use a lube on a stainless barrel with a stainless barrel when even a test fit while the barrel is even in the lathe. Stainless barrels used in Chrome moly actions need lube on them also, but they are not as prone to gauling as Stainless on Stainless.

When I was shooting Registered BR, I too changed barrels with only snapping the barrel in place by hand. Today, I would want at least 60 ft/lbs of torque on a barrel using a custom action that I knew was true. This is just what makes me feel "good"...nothing scientific about my gut feeling at all.

 

[birdiemc]

I'd be very curious to see a test regarding torque and if it does get rid of fliers (flyers).
Be careful using the word "slop" around here. I was disciplined for that one

That would be an easy enough test to perform... After reading that I thought about folks trying different torques on action screws to tighten up groups. So maybe there is something to it.

 

[Mram10us]

I have too many other tests going on now to try the barrel torque test Maybe someone else can do it. Make sure action screws are torqued to the same spec each time to reduce variables. Definitely not a hard test to run

 

[birdiemc]

I have too many other tests going on now to try the barrel torque test Maybe someone else can do it. Make sure action screws are torqued to the same spec each time to reduce variables. Definitely not a hard test to run

If I had a rifle I trusted I would run the test, but currently I'm running other tests that are taking all my attention

 

[David Emerson]

Ok so I've got a rem 700 with a bartlein barrel that I had a gunsmith chamber and install. Also had a mbm muzzle brake installed. When I got the rifle back I noticed the brake was pretty loose. I was able to take it off with very little force with my hand. Anyways I know it would come loose under recoil so I grabbed a old inner tube and cut a good strip off and wrapped it around the brake several times and used a 10" pair of channel locks to snug it down. I'm a mechanic by trade and typically know how tight to get things by feel. It was snug but definitely not too tight. Okay so fast forward a month or so. Been having accuracy issues and trying to narrow down the problem I thought it would be a good idea to remove the brake and see if accuracy increases. So grab the inner tube and channel locks and start turning. I held the stock in one hand and the channels in the other and applied some pressure and the next thing I know the barrel is loose from the action. I was very surprised that this happened. If I had to put a torque value on it I'd say maybe 10 ft lbs max. It was not very tight. Now from what I've researched is they should be anywhere from 40 ft lbs to 100 or more. Would the lack of torque be my accuracy issue? I've got a call into my Smith and am waiting for a call back.

I can,t say for sure but it certainly wasn't helping. You are a mechanic? So I am sure you have a torque wrench. Either the guy screwed up the threading so it has some taper or he just forgot to torque it. The guys at bat say 75 ft lbs and up. I torque to 120 to 140. 1 1/16 thread that is not going to hurt anything. I have had guns come in here that I had to use a 4 ft pipe on the action wrench to get the barrel off.

 

[David Emerson]

I can,t say for sure but it certainly wasn't helping. You are a mechanic? So I am sure you have a torque wrench. Either the guy screwed up the threading so it has some taper or he just forgot to torque it. The guys at bat say 75 ft lbs and up. I torque to 120 to 140. 1 1/16 thread that is not going to hurt anything. I have had guns come in here that I had to use a 4 ft pipe on the action wrench to get the barrel off.

Defiance has a wrench you can use with a torque wrench.

 

[Joefrazell]

The gunsmith has taken this all like a champ. He's not making any excuses but is eager to get it taken care of and he's also not happy with the accuracy I'm seeing. He's saying .5moa or better is his standard for what he builds. Hopefully I'll have it back soon shooting under 1/2"

 

[David Emerson]

The gunsmith has taken this all like a champ. He's not making any excuses but is eager to get it taken care of and he's also not happy with the accuracy I'm seeing. He's saying .5moa or better is his standard for what he builds. Hopefully I'll have it back soon shooting under 1/2"

Good. No one is perfect.