Barrel to action torque?

[Joefrazell]

My Smith is going to be taking the rifle back to check it out along with the accuracy issue.

 

[ajkellerusmc]

From here on I wouldnt put much trust in your smith.

 

[Joefrazell]

So I talked to him and his way of doing it explains why it happened. He doesn't torque them down but but screws then down and then gives the action wrench a couple good smacks with his palm. This is his procedure to lock it down and in his defense the barrel would have never have come loose with normal use. He was kind of stressed about it and I'm sure he will tighten them up a bit more than he has from now on. He's going to take a look at the rifle and try to figure out the accuracy issue here at the first of the year

 

[swat]

A shouldered barrel needs to be torqued to between 90-100 ft/lbs. i have a friend that worked for remington and they torqued to 100 ft/lbs. i use the remage nut on my builds, and torque to 70 ft/lbs. i would take it to someone else to be fixed. it can turn fatal with a gun that is out of spec.

 

[Joefrazell]

A shouldered barrel needs to be torqued to between 90-100 ft/lbs. i have a friend that worked for remington and they torqued to 100 ft/lbs. i use the remage nut on my builds, and torque to 70 ft/lbs. i would take it to someone else to be fixed. it can turn fatal with a gun that is out of spec.

The torque isn't holding the spec. A quick search will show how many options there really are on the subject of barrel to action torque. Pretty interesting.

 

[birdiemc]

So I talked to him and his way of doing it explains why it happened. He doesn't torque them down but but screws then down and then gives the action wrench a couple good smacks with his palm. This is his procedure to lock it down and in his defense the barrel would have never have come loose with normal use. He was kind of stressed about it and I'm sure he will tighten them up a bit more than he has from now on. He's going to take a look at the rifle and try to figure out the accuracy issue here at the first of the year

I've read where lots of folks who build good shooting rifles do just the same so, contrary to a post I made earlier about his competence, he sounds like he wants to do right by you. And you're right, there's so many "correct torques" floating around out there who's to say which one is really correct. Like I said before, in the mechanic world torque specs are there to keep from over tightening a bolt and inducing undue stress, so as long as it isn't over torqued, but remains tight while shooting I think the various responses would indicate you're good.

 

[J E Custom]

Everyone needs to consider the action/tenon size and the type of make up before setting a torque value. Some actions place the tenon in tension, others that make up internally and on the action shoulder require a different torque because of multiple mating surfaces.

Some actions also have Whitworth threads And require a totally different torque also.

Just because a factory barrel is hard to remove doesn't mean it requires heavy torque. it just normally means that it has been together a long time or the factory used a thread sealer to protect the threads from the bluing salts entering and corroding the threads.

There is no reason to torque some actions/barrels to more than 60 to 70 ft/lbs. It only adds stress to the system.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Edd]

I don't think you are going to add much stress using any of the torque values suggested in this thread. I didn't look up the torque specs but for a 1-1/16 inch fine thread bolt it is going to be a few hundred pounds.

 

[J E Custom]

I don't think you are going to add much stress using any of the torque values suggested in this thread. I didn't look up the torque specs but for a 1-1/16 inch fine thread bolt it is going to be a few hundred pounds.

I agree but being the one that has to remove it I feel that enough is enough and more is not needed. The gunsmith that I trained under had the notion that to much torque could alter the chamber dimensions slightly. He was a bench rest shooter and believed in minimal torque, Just not Hand tight.

I 'have' seen the effects of over torquing muzzle brakes reducing the tenon size a small amount, not much but it did tighten the bore enough to prevent the proper size pilot from entering. when I hear of a muzzle brake effecting accuracy, this is one of the first things I check especially if it is a brake that has to be timed. (Some just keep torquing until the brake is timed)

J E CUSTOM

 

[Shooter71]

Edd you are correct. The concern shouldn't be about having the barrel fall off, it's about being tight enough to stabilize the joint when multiple 60psi explosions happen inside. Doing things a certain way because short range BR competitors do them that way isn't always a good idea. 80ft-lbs is not very tight at all, for a connection of that size.

 

[birdiemc]

I don't think you are going to add much stress using any of the torque values suggested in this thread. I didn't look up the torque specs but for a 1-1/16 inch fine thread bolt it is going to be a few hundred pounds.

The helicopter i used to work on had tail rotor blade bolts somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/4 - 1"...its been 15 years so dont quite recall, but the torque was 420ft/lbs. I do remember that, I dislocated my shoulder once torquing one. Like yall said, none of the torques listed in this thread are going to be over torque probably, it's a matter of holding things together.

 

[Blackhawk]

No, I think that is a great way to induce errors. When you force two things together that are not perfectly square and true soemthing has to give and that screws up the centerline of the bore and will likely push the action somewhat out of square.

When anything is machined there always will be manufacturing allowable tolerances.For the sake of argument lets say that your your barrels lug is not exactly square but has a little taper in it. Now carrying that one step further lets say that your stock to barrel fit, or your stock to action fit is poor and is either too loose or slightly rubbing up on the receivers bottom or sides.Or that the barrel lugs fit in regards to your stock is slightly binding. Or perhaps your action screws are not tight enough.Or the barrel nut to barrel fit is not tight enough or not true and square with the receiver.How about the barrels chamber face and walls . Are they true and square with your action?
What i'm trying to say is what you may have is a combination of stacked tolerances that even though each individual part is within factory tolerances do to a combined tolerance stacking any one of which to lead to accuracy problems. In my opinion you have to examine everything. Only then can you take steps toward correction of these issues.
Now I have not even touched on the head spacing issues that a barrel removal will cause. Unless a quality set of go -no go caliber specific chamber gages are used your rifle will never be correct. I myself would find another gun smith and have him examine and subsequently repair your rifle. Personally I would be leary of a smith that did not promptly return your phone call.as his/her reputation is now in question. I speak as a retired tool and die maker with over 45 years experience.

 

[Joefrazell]

When anything is machined there always will be manufacturing allowable tolerances.For the sake of argument lets say that your your barrels lug is not exactly square but has a little taper in it. Now carrying that one step further lets say that your stock to barrel fit, or your stock to action fit is poor and is either too loose or slightly rubbing up on the receivers bottom or sides.Or that the barrel lugs fit in regards to your stock is slightly binding. Or perhaps your action screws are not tight enough.Or the barrel nut to barrel fit is not tight enough or not true and square with the receiver.How about the barrels chamber face and walls . Are they true and square with your action?
What i'm trying to say is what you may have is a combination of stacked tolerances that even though each individual part is within factory tolerances do to a combined tolerance stacking any one of which to lead to accuracy problems. In my opinion you have to examine everything. Only then can you take steps toward correction of these issues.
Now I have not even touched on the head spacing issues that a barrel removal will cause. Unless a quality set of go -no go caliber specific chamber gages are used your rifle will never be correct. I myself would find another gun smith and have him examine and subsequently repair your rifle. Personally I would be leary of a smith that did not promptly return your phone call.as his/her reputation is now in question. I speak as a retired tool and die maker with over 45 years experience.

He did return my phone call. He now has the rifle. He will get another chance.

 

[keithcandler]

Stainless on Stainless can be a nightmare if there is no lube. Whether you are dealing with actions or muzzle breaks/tunners on Stainless barrels. You need a high pressure, high temp lube do to heat of the barrel so the lube will not break down.

This lube is outstanding and very affordable, used in the aircraft industry:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AeroShell-...-Pails-/392542227840?var=&hash=item5b65570d80

I have seen some muzzle breaks gaul, stainless on stainless barrels, it is a nightmare to deal with.

Using non trued actions with factory recoil lugs on Remingtons, I get a .002 or less compression when I torque at 60-75 ft/lbs. I thread with pretty tight tolerances.

A friend, Steve Hendry, was Utah State Benchrest Champ many years. Steve was head of the Fighter Aircraft Repair facility in Ogden, Utah for many years, a Tooling engineer. A tooling engineer is a machinists, machinist. Steve warned me about not having enough torque on my barrels, and he torqued all of his barrels at 100 ft/lbs. Steve said that loose fitting barrels were a cause of flyers, they found. Steve used Stolle Panda's, Hall M, and Remington actions.

Steve did not believe in cutting real tight threads(class 3) on non trued actions because there needed to be some slop so things could mate up.

Threading is a science in and of it''s self.