At what point does custom pay off?

[mrb1982]

Very good points. Something to think about.

I don't know a lot about competitive rifle shooting but man that would be a lot if shots to try to hold half moa. I did 12 shots all under half moa at 700 and was feeling pretty good about it. That isn't even getting a start at it for the competitive guys.

I am generally not into the real massive rounds but I got a pretty good deal on this 300 rum. Otherwise I wouldn't even be thinking about doing anything with this thing.

Just a little side question. If you had a 1/2 MOA 7RM Sendero with a Leupold VX-3, would you go for the custom, or upgrade the optics on the existing sendero? Kind of a theoretical thing. Maybe just upgrade to a Nightforce on my 7rm sendero and have all the 1000yd gun I need

 

[Jluck]

Very good points. Something to think about.

I don't know a lot about competitive rifle shooting but man that would be a lot if shots to try to hold half moa. I did 12 shots all under half moa at 700 and was feeling pretty good about it. That isn't even getting a start at it for the competitive guys.

I am generally not into the real massive rounds but I got a pretty good deal on this 300 rum. Otherwise I wouldn't even be thinking about doing anything with this thing.

Just a little side question. If you had a 1/2 MOA 7RM Sendero with a Leupold VX-3, would you go for the custom, or upgrade the optics on the existing sendero? Kind of a theoretical thing. Maybe just upgrade to a Nightforce on my 7rm sendero and have all the 1000yd gun I need

I would personally throw that VX3 as far as I could and put some decent glass on a good shooting rifle if I were in that scenario. Actually I was in that same boat... my Steyr Prohunter 7 Rem mag does shoot .5-.75 easily and I bought it with a cheap Zeiss scope, I yanked it off and put better glass on it, had the trigger done and action bedded. It is a great shooter. A real treat.

Oh... And I'm only in to it about 3,500.

 

[mrb1982]

I actually don't think the vx 3 is that bad. I like how the turrets are set up on the nightforce a little better though. Man they are expensive though and I don't really see it as an upgrade for anything besides nightforce as the other budget options aren't any better than what I have right now.

Like you I did work on my factory sendero. Jewel trigger, brake, adjustable cheek piece, bedded the recoil lug. I must have got one of the better factory barrels for the way it shoots.

Maybe rather than going custom on the 300rum I will just see if I can turn it into a shooter as is. I will have to think about it

 

[MudRunner2005]

Very good points. Something to think about.

I don't know a lot about competitive rifle shooting but man that would be a lot if shots to try to hold half moa. I did 12 shots all under half moa at 700 and was feeling pretty good about it. That isn't even getting a start at it for the competitive guys.

I am generally not into the real massive rounds but I got a pretty good deal on this 300 rum. Otherwise I wouldn't even be thinking about doing anything with this thing.

Just a little side question. If you had a 1/2 MOA 7RM Sendero with a Leupold VX-3, would you go for the custom, or upgrade the optics on the existing sendero? Kind of a theoretical thing. Maybe just upgrade to a Nightforce on my 7rm sendero and have all the 1000yd gun I need

I have 2 rules I live by as a gun collector and enthusiest...

1) Never sell a good-shooting gun
2) Never sell a Remington 700...Because they will last forever, and you can always find the parts to fix them, and a smith who knows them inside and out.

I say upgrade the optics, and see if you can tweak those loads a little more to get it down to .3" groups.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I would personally throw that VX3 as far as I could and put some decent glass on a good shooting rifle if I were in that scenario. Actually I was in that same boat... my Steyr Prohunter 7 Rem mag does shoot .5-.75 easily and I bought it with a cheap Zeiss scope, I yanked it off and put better glass on it, had the trigger done and action bedded. It is a great shooter. A real treat.

Oh... And I'm only in to it about 3,500.

You don't really think the "cheap Zeiss" scope was the scenario solver in that entire list of upgrades, do you?

I would be willing to bet the bedding and trigger job did 3x more for it than swapping the glass...

Zeiss makes an excellent product, even the, as you so delicately put it, "cheap" ones.

I do agree that I would take the least expensive Zeiss over the most expensive Leupold anyday. Just my opinion.

 

[Jluck]

You don't really think the "cheap Zeiss" scope was the scenario solver in that entire list of upgrades, do you?

I would be willing to bet the bedding and trigger job did 3x more for it than swapping the glass...

Zeiss makes an excellent product, even the, as you so delicately put it, "cheap" ones.

I do agree that I would take the least expensive Zeiss over the most expensive Leupold anyday. Just my opinion.

I absolutely know the better optics made the biggest difference in my case. My rifle shot great before the other work was done too. I referred to my "cheap" Zeiss because it is one because of magnification range it's one of their cheaper models. Same reason I'd dump the VX3 in OP's scenario. Not because of brand or cost but the power range for a " 1,000 yard rifle" I whole heartedly feel a 3-9 (like my Zeiss) is worthless. So I'd still toss the VX3 and get a better power range, Maybe a VX6 3-18 for the Leupold guys on a budget or my next rifle projects are going to have Vortex optics I think. I'm really impressed with them for the cost.

 

[Jluck]

You don't really think the "cheap Zeiss" scope was the scenario solver in that entire list of upgrades, do you?

I would be willing to bet the bedding and trigger job did 3x more for it than swapping the glass...

Zeiss makes an excellent product, even the, as you so delicately put it, "cheap" ones.

I do agree that I would take the least expensive Zeiss over the most expensive Leupold anyday. Just my opinion.

I absolutely know the better optics made the biggest difference in my case. My rifle shot great before the other work was done too. I referred to my "cheap" Zeiss because it is one because of magnification range it's one of their cheaper models. Same reason I'd dump the VX3 in OP's scenario. Not because of brand or cost but the power range for a " 1,000 yard rifle" I whole heartedly feel a 3-9 (like my Zeiss) is worthless. So I'd still toss the VX3 and get a better power range, Maybe a VX6 3-18 for the Leupold guys on a budget or my next rifle projects are going to have Vortex optics I think. I'm really impressed with them for the cost.

Oops I forgot the smug simile

 

[mrb1982]

My keep leupold is actually a 6.5-20.

Yeah a lot of people have told me I am an idiot to think about selling a half moa gun so I probably oughta keep it. The hardest part about selling it is I would never get out of it what I got into it. I don't want to take a hit on it.

 

[Jluck]

With a 6.5-20 atop a half MOA rifle, you already have a 1K capable gun. Lots of practice now.

If you still want a custom just because. ... I'd shoot for the moon. 338 edege, 408 Cheytac etc. But that's just me.

 

[bkondeff]

Past 800yds for sure, past 600 yds most of the time. Many factory magnums, not Ulta, which is what most people can shoot, can be made to shoot easily within the kill zone of deer/elk. Even at .75 moa, you can hit a deers 6" kill zone at 800. Of course .75 MOA at 100 or even 200 by no means equals .75 MOA the farther out you go. I have an A-Bolt that shoots .9moa at 100, .5 at 500, and about .75 at 800. I think this is the VLD BERGERS I shoot.

I find that with the basic tune-up of bedding, trigger, and maybe addition of a $200 Medalist stock, every factory gun I've loaded for will be sub MOA to between 500-800yds. Problem is it sometimes takes 200 or more rounds to vette everything out. With the cost and more importantly the scarcity of key components for reloading(think H1000, Berger .284 180's, and STW brass) this can be very expensive and time consuming.

I think the value of custom guns are that they will shoot most of what you want, load wise, well. Gunsmiths know how to do a chamber to get the most out of a particular bullet, and even know what loads it's going to like. This saves money and time. I think it's especially valuable if you don't reload.

If you are concerned with resale, go with custom actions and well known smiths in a popular caliber and you can get a lot of your money back. If I put $1500 into a a gun like my A-Bolt, it's only worth $800 if I want to sell, even with it's performance. If I spent $3500-$4500 on a custom with Len or Rbros, I would lose only maybe $1k, maybe even less.

The last point I want to make is that most guys are either Shooters first or Hunters first. Shooters will likely always want custom, if you're a hunter first and either your conditions or you're skill will keep your long range maxed out between 500 and 700, then maybe a factory rifle will work.

 

[MMERSS]

I did 12 shots all under half moa at 700 and was feeling pretty good about it. That isn't even getting a start at it for the competitive guys.

Hunting rifle, 12 shots under 3.5" at 700 yards. I would be extremely happy if I could do this with ONE of my competition rifles. 1 MOA many times, under 1/2 MOA I don't think I've accomplished this yet with a 10+ string.

Yeah a lot of people have told me I am an idiot to think about selling a half moa gun so I probably oughta keep it.

I wouldn't consider you an idiot.....maybe borderline crazy for selling a multi-shot 1/2 MOA huntng gun at range custom or not custom.

Keep the gun. I would sell one of my customs in a heart beat for a shooter like that. 3/4 MOA is about the best I've been able to tune my hunting customs to shoot multi-shot groups at range.

 

[mrb1982]

Well that answers that. If this 300rum I am getting wasn't a sporter barrel I would be way more excited about it. We will see what happens with it I guess

 

[MudRunner2005]

In my experience with RUM calibers and sporter barrels, it's not good... You get one beautiful cold-bore shot...But then shots 2 and 3 might be within a 2-3 MOA group somewhere on the target...

Just from my personal experiences with them.

 

[mrb1982]

Kinda what i wad thinking. Here is the dilema I hace. I have become accustomed to braked rifles. But I don't want to put one on this rifle until I see if it's a shooter. Therefore who knows if I would ever really find the true potential of the rifle. Who knows, maybe just sell it after I buy it and call it good. Hahaja