At what point does custom pay off?

[Korhil78]

Rick I guess it would be what one considers accurate. Others have commented that it is not uncommon for a custom to reach 1/4MOA or better with hand loads. I did not know that was the case. In that regard, customs absolutely win out on accuracy. But obtaining .5MOA to 1MOA accuracy with factory remingtons, savages, tikkas for example I think is very doable with very little modifications depending on which model you choose of course. I have not owned a ton of different rifles, but between myself, my friends, and family I would say I have witnessed 30+ factory rifles shooting better than 1MOA out to 300 yards(this is the longest I can shoot at my gun range). I have witnessed about 12 of these rifles shooting again sub MOA out to 400 yards at my father-in-laws property. Out of the 12 we shot at 400 yards, id say half maybe a couple more are close to the .5MOA mark. Will they hold this out to the 1000 yard mark, I do not know but I do know that the chronographs show very promising speeds with low ES and SDs. So maybe I should have said, if you intend on shooting say under 600 yards, maybe a bit further, then I think custom is a waste of money for the accuracy part alone, but if one simply wants pride of ownership, custom fit to your person etc then by all means get it. Now, if someone was looking greater than this yardage...maybe even 1000 plus yards then I can definitely see the advantages of a custom but let me ask this. Couldn't someone buy a sendero for instance. test it out to 1000 yards. If it shoots good enough then GREAT, if not...800 dollars will get you a custom barrel, trued/blueprinted to your action and the stock epoxy bedded...I bet that rifle will now definitely be capable of sub .5 MOA groups out to those distances and you are still under the cost of a FULL custom rifle. Just my two cents.

Because after doing all of that, you are really close to a custom cost. Let's take prices from a very reputable company such as Bean Land custom rifles. You may get it done cheaper else where but if you are gonna customize your gun then I would want to go to someone that had a really good reputation. Let's say that we are doing a 300 RUM sendero. I included some of these because I am trying to compare it to a custom.

1. Rem 300 RUM Sendero used: $900 (MAYBE)
2. Trueing the action: $275
3. New sendero contour hart barrel : $350
4. Chambering of barrel: ($250) cheapest option there
5. Threading of barrel and install of muzzle brake: $150
6. Muzzle brake: $100
7. Pillar bedding: $200

That's $2,225 and that doesn't include if you want a timney or Jewell trigger, rings or an extended mag box installed so you can seat bullets to the rifling.

I have a Custom 338 Lapua
1: Stiller TAC 338 single shot action : $900
2: 26" Hart fluted sendero contour barrel: $400
3: McMillan A3 stock w/adjustable cheek rest: $575
4: 4 port muscle break: $115
5: All machining work, bedding and fitting by reputable smith: $900
6: Jewell trigger: $200

$3090 total for mine. The main differences that I see is that I got a MUCH better stock, trigger and beefier black oxided action.

It all comes down to you money and preference.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I can't argue with that. I have always been intrigued worth the stw and/or 7mm/300 win mag. What is hardest for me is the cost to shoot some of these big boomers. Stw/rum brass can get get kinda spendy. I keep having to pep talk myself into it lol

STW brass is worth every penny... Once you one one, and you send a 180gr bullet over 3,000 fps, you will get that magical tingly sensation through your whole body. It's because the STW is a mythical and magical beast.

Luke, come to the dark side... Plus, you can be in the Brotherhood.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Because after doing all of that, you are really close to a custom cost. Let's take prices from a very reputable company such as Bean Land custom rifles. You may get it done cheaper else where but if you are gonna customize your gun then I would want to go to someone that had a really good reputation. Let's say that we are doing a 300 RUM sendero. I included some of these because I am trying to compare it to a custom.

1. Rem 300 RUM Sendero used: $900 (MAYBE)
2. Trueing the action: $275
3. New sendero contour hart barrel : $350
4. Chambering of barrel: ($250) cheapest option there
5. Threading of barrel and install of muzzle brake: $150
6. Muzzle brake: $100
7. Pillar bedding: $200

That's $2,225 and that doesn't include if you want a timney or Jewell trigger, rings or an extended mag box installed so you can seat bullets to the rifling.

I have a Custom 338 Lapua
1: Stiller TAC 338 single shot action : $900
2: 26" Hart fluted sendero contour barrel: $400
3: McMillan A3 stock w/adjustable cheek rest: $575
4: 4 port muscle break: $115
5: All machining work, bedding and fitting by reputable smith: $900
6: Jewell trigger: $200

$3090 total for mine. The main differences that I see is that I got a MUCH better stock, trigger and beefier black oxided action.

It all comes down to you money and preference.

First off...If you're building a custom, why are you buying a $900 Sendero, just to pull the barrel and stock off? Why not spend $599 on an SPS, or $379 on an ADL, then $100 for a BDL setup off of ebay or here in the classifieds.

 

[Korhil78]

Did you not read BigEclipses last post about the Sendero which would be the post that I quoted in my last post? I was going off of what he was thinking in his scenario. I was trying to explain to him why it wasn't practical.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Did you not read BigEclipses last post about the Sendero which would be the post that I quoted in my last post? I was going off of what he was thinking in his scenario. I was trying to explain to him why it wasn't practical.

Korhil... did you NOT read mine. I stated that most likely the sendero with a simple bedding job will do around .5 MOA out to 700 yards which is MORE than enough for most people. So if it were me I would buy a sendero hoping it shot well out of the box. They go for 1000-1100 on gunbroker new often. So bam decent chance getting a 1/2MOA shooter right out the gate. If not, rebarrel it with trued action for 600 dollars and you are still under 2 grand. Throw in a timney trigger and there ya go. Now if I was planning on going any further than say 700 yard...then yeah id probably fork out the dough for a custom. Also, I have not held many McMillan stocks or manners in person, BUT I wouldn't say they are WORLDS better than the stock which comes with the sendero (as long as the sendero stock fits you well)
This is all based off the many reports here and on sniper's hide of sendero's great accuracy out of the box.

 

[longrangehunterII]

Educate me on flutes. Are they worth the money? Are they really needed for hunting purposes since long strings generally aren't involved?

Don't waste your money! Accuracy will suffer especially on thinner barrels, if the barrel was excessively heavy, like a MTU, or Straight taper and you can't live with it then OK, but you'll still be better off turning it down instead. Some barrel makers won't even do it because of the degradation in accuracy.

Accuracy International used to flute their barrels, and after extensive testing will no longer flute their barrels because of the POI shift difference as the barrel heats up during long strings, not the other way around, they actually make it worse.

They may look cool, but in real terms why take metal away from a perfectly straight tube with a hole in it and place different stresses across the diameter of it? Doesn't seem to be sound advise in my mind? But that's just my 2 cents.

 

[mrb1982]

Don't quote me for sure but it seems like Broz stated on this sight once that every sendero he played with that with a little bedding and some trigger work, we're all capable of shooting .5 moa. Most of the time the gun can probably shoot beget than we can. Haha

The stw is intriguing. I tend to lean more to a7mm/300 as personal preference but basically the same beast with a little different case

 

[mrb1982]

Don't waste your money! Accuracy will suffer especially on thinner barrels, if the barrel was excessively heavy, like a MTU, or Straight taper and you can't live with it then OK, but you still be better off turning it down instead. Some barrel makers won't even do it because of the degradation in accuracy.

Accuracy International used to flute their barrels, and after extensive testing will no longer flute their barrels because of the POI shift difference as the barrel heats up during long strings, not the other way around, they actually make it worse.

They may look cool, but in real terms why take metal away from a perfectly straight tube with a hole in it and place different stresses across the diameter of it? Doesn't seem to be sound advise in my mind? But that's just my 2 cents.

Interesting. I don't figure they save all that much weight anywaus, do they?

 

[longrangehunterII]

Ya they can reduce the weight but at the cost of accuracy and the money wasted that could be used on a better trigger or ammo.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Don't quote me for sure but it seems like Broz stated on this sight once that every sendero he played with that with a little bedding and some trigger work, we're all capable of shooting .5 moa. Most of the time the gun can probably shoot beget than we can. Haha

The stw is intriguing. I tend to lean more to a7mm/300 as personal preference but basically the same beast with a little different case

I have 4 rifles shooting factory Sendero barrels.....All of them are sub-MOA guns with handloads. Some are sub-1/2 MOA.

 

[mrb1982]

I just like big heavy guns so it probably won't bother me either way. A good shoulder strap makes a big difference

 

[MudRunner2005]

I just like big heavy guns so it probably won't bother me either way. A good shoulder strap makes a big difference

Butler Creek neoprene, all the way!

 

[mrb1982]

Butler Creek neoprene, all the way!

Yep! I need to put some flush cups on though

 

[Korhil78]

Korhil... did you NOT read mine. I stated that most likely the sendero with a simple bedding job will do around .5 MOA out to 700 yards which is MORE than enough for most people. So if it were me I would buy a sendero hoping it shot well out of the box. They go for 1000-1100 on gunbroker new often. So bam decent chance getting a 1/2MOA shooter right out the gate. If not, rebarrel it with trued action for 600 dollars and you are still under 2 grand. Throw in a timney trigger and there ya go. Now if I was planning on going any further than say 700 yard...then yeah id probably fork out the dough for a custom. Also, I have not held many McMillan stocks or manners in person, BUT I wouldn't say they are WORLDS better than the stock which comes with the sendero (as long as the sendero stock fits you well)
This is all based off the many reports here and on sniper's hide of sendero's great accuracy out of the box.

I absolutely did read your post. I had a Sendero SFII in 220 swift and it did shoot well. If I had the money to do both (buy a Sendero or build a custom), I would just build a custom rifle. I am not much of a gambler though if I could do both anyway. If I didn't have the money then I would buy the Sendero and be happy with it because they are a good factory rifle. Maybe we are misunderstanding each other though.

I shoot a lot past 1000 yards and have been recently working up to 2000 yards so the custom was worth it to me. But I do honestly believe that a factory rifle can do well out to even 800 yards and maybe even 1000 yards (never shot a factory rifle that far). But I had the money so I decided to go custom.