Are three shot groups valuable?

[cardon1122]

"Cold bore" and "clean bore" are two different things. After my rifle bore is cleaned and a thin film of bore protectant left in it, it will rarely shoot the first (or even the first few) round(s) into the group that subsequent rounds will create.

Sometimes I wonder what posters mean when that say "cold bore" shot.

The two slightly lower holes are the first two shots from a clean and cold bore. Above that are the next 8 shots from my 6 Creedmoor. It seems to vary by gun but sometimes my first first 1or two shots from a clean and cold bore can be up to 1 MOA off from subsequent shots and sometimes much less like above. The first cold shot from a fouled barrel is usually somewhat closer to the subsequent group. If the barrel gets too hot to hold your hand on it, I'll usually start to see some drift as well. In general, my heavy barreled guns tend to show less movement overall both cold and hot than my lighter barrels.

 

[Ninering62]

Took an old Rem 700 and had one of my rifle builders add a McM stock and a lightweight Brux bbl chambered in 300 RUM. Shot a few ho- hum groups with 200 ABs and then loaded three sets of 3 each 225 ELDs w/88 gr Retumbo at three different seating depths (I am not a ladder fan as seating depth has always been key for me). The second load was good.

So I loaded two more to make it five shots and fired the next day. Any guesses what the group below looked like after two more shots?

****! Thats stackin some 300 rum bullets in a hole. Nice job.

 

[rsbhunter]

I honestly believe the 300 RUM is the 6br of the hunting calibers....I shot at 500 twice, both groups were under or at .750. That was from new Rem 700 that I sent to Kampfeld Customs and had a Krieger 28" bbl , action trued,, etc done. First 3 shot group at a hundred showed one big 30 caliber hole......I have bought, built, and sold many guns, but this one will be handed down to grandson....210 Berger VLD hunting, 91gr Retumbo , Fed GM210M....IF more people knew about the accuracy of this cartridge, and how manageable recoil is with a Vais brake , alot of other calibers would be left at home.....rsbhunter

 

[baldhunter]

"Cold bore" and "clean bore" are two different things. After my rifle bore is cleaned and a thin film of bore protectant left in it, it will rarely shoot the first (or even the first few) round(s) into the group that subsequent rounds will create.

Sometimes I wonder what posters mean when that say "cold bore" shot.

Rifles I have taken the time to do barrel breakin will usually shoot the same cold bore shot whether it's clean or dirty.Did the breakin make the difference?There is absolutely no way to prove one way or the other but it is something I have observed with my rifles.I had one rifle years ago that was really bad.I know I shot that rifle probably 30 times or so before it's first cleaning.I always kept my barreles clean after shooting or hunting.It took me years to finally figure out my perfectly clean barrel rifle consistently throwed the first cold clean bore shot about 3-4 inches out of the group.I always just thought it was me because after a few shots it started grouping really well.I know I missed more with that rifle than any rifle I ever owned.After I found out what was going on with that rifle,I started paying close attention to the cold bore issue.I still keep at least a three round fouled bore on a rifle I'm hunting with reguardless.

 

[blueprairiedog]

3 shots for me to find what my gun likes.seating depth doesn't do much for Berger hybrids are not as much as powder charge seems to do .after I find something that works at 200 then I shoot 10 shots in 15 minutes and and then I know if it's a keeper.everyone have great weekend and don't waste your primers

 

[cabelasken]

I shoot 3, save the target if its good, go back a week later and shoot another 3 and then superimpose the second target over the first. If the total group didn't appreciably increase the size and stayed within my goal for that rifle, I called it good to go for the upcoming hunting season. If the overall group increased by more than 15%, back to the reloading bench. Also, I always load fresh loads for the new season as for some of my rifles, the center of impact sometimes changed 1/4 to 3/8".

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I'll run with 3 shot groups on early ld, then at least a couple of higher shot count groups in differing weather conditions to confirm. I usaully never hunt a round with less than 40-50 rounds downrange before as I want to see if it'll toss random fliers.. I'll also usually run her over the chrono to check speed and uniformity

 

[nickjandrews]

A 3 shot group worked out for Kyle Rittenhouse, so...

 

[Philward]

So the next day I fired two more and got the group below. For the next week I banged steel with it at my CO place. But as I was doing so, I noticed my velocities were going up (bbl had less than 30 shots when I fired the group below). So this morning I took the same target to my 100 yard range, and fired two more. Seven shots in .483".

I do get a laugh when guys say "I never shoot 3 times at an animal, so why test loads using 5 shot groups?" Well, as you can see, while my seven shot group is great, it got bigger the more shots I fired.

I think the variations you see in the grip size is you, your contact with the rifle, the way you look through the scope on a different day, slight difference in holding the rifle, etc ..

 

[Pointman]

I believe 3 shots is good for testing.
And when accuracy testing (cold bore) 1 shot at a time is exactly what I need.

As do I. As an old varmint hunter, now confined to bench shooting due to age and joint deterioration, I developed loads on 3 shot groups. At the time I was varmint shooting, I had a friend with 500 acres and a severe ground squirrel problem; hence the delay between shots. 5 shots are best but I believe 3 are just as adequate for hunting.

 

[Teri Anne]

That's why I like one shot groups. Go home feeling good about my rifle precision and shooting abilities.

A one shot group gives you false confidence about your rifle precision and your shooting abilities.

A one shot group only tells you where that one bullet went, not where the gun really shoots or how the ammunition performs except for that one shot. Unless the temps are the same, the ammo the same (same lot number if factory) velocity the same the wind is the same, the lighting the same then there is nothing that will guarantee that the next shot will hit near the same place.

Recently (during the past week) had a friend out at the gun club come to me with a complaint that his new MSR that would not group. He was trying to shoot 55 gr factory ammo with a 1/7 barrel twist barrel, the groups were in excess of 4 MOA. Moved to 62 gr factory and group dropped to 1.5 MOA then with 69 gr factory ammo it dropped down to 0.9 MOA, might even get tighter with 77 gr ammo. Most of you already knew the outcome when I said he was shooting 55 gr ammo (which is cheap) out of a 1/7 twist barrel.

The moral of this story is that if he only fired one shot he would have never known that there were issues. He was already blaming the rifle simply because he did not know better. He now knows better. For me, I want either 3 or 5 shots well within 1 MOA so that that 1 shot I take at the Buck of a lifetime goes exactly where I want it to go when I make 1 shot = 1 dead deer or whatever else it is that I am shooting at.

If you have ever spent an afternoon at your local gun club during their rifle sighting event prior to deer season you might want to give it a try someday. There are a lot of people that believe that 1 shot is all they need. 6 out of 10 people have no idea what they are really doing, where their rifle is hitting and ignore the safety rules. Makes me glad that I hunt on 250 acres of private land with 5 other hunters. We all know where the others are at all times.

 

[dblman]

Took an old Rem 700 and had one of my rifle builders add a McM stock and a lightweight Brux bbl chambered in 300 RUM. Shot a few ho- hum groups with 200 ABs and then loaded three sets of 3 each 225 ELDs w/88 gr Retumbo at three different seating depths (I am not a ladder fan as seating depth has always been key for me). The second load was good.

So I loaded two more to make it five shots and fired the next day. Any guesses what the group below looked like after two more shots?

Went to pot didn't it. I don't understand why people feel their hunting rifle must group like a PPC bench gun. Do you generally fire 6 shots at game?

 

[Pdvdh]

A one shot group gives you false confidence about your rifle precision and your shooting abilities.

Yeah, I agree.

But I go home feeling good, nonetheless.

 

[Buffalobwana]

You can't shrink a 3 shot group by shooting more bullets at it.

Congrats on the "shooter". It's great to have a rifle that will do that.