Ive had few guns shoot 1/4 moa at 100 and not at 800. Just did 30-28 nosler shot a .6-.7 at 100 itll shoot .3 at 1000 consistently
3 shot groups…
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Why i dont go off 100 yard load data on a gun I consider long range. If it hits paper ar 100 and shoot .3 at 1000 im happy
Laelkhunter
Well-Known Member
I read about the graphite bore treatment and purchased some colloidal graphite from Greg at Gretan rifles. His graphite is much finer than the lock-eeze, and supposed to penetrate into the crevices in the bore better.
My question is, do you treat the bore once with it and you're done, or do you have to treat the bore after every cleaning? How long does the graphite treatment last before having to be reapplied?
I have observed this as well. I tune for the distance I shoot. 1 MOA off at 100 yards is still hitting hair on a game animal where at 1000 yards, you might loose the quality of the shoot or miss. That reminds me, I rarely have a perfect zero at 100 yards. I use the ballistic app to compensate for this so my LR data matches up across the board.
Doom2
Well-Known Member
Three shots @ 100yds can tell you a lot, a little, or they can tell you nearly nothing. For a hunting application three shot groups can tell you about where your zero is and what kind of distribution (grouping/point of impact you might expect with factory ammunition or a known good reload. But it does little to verify longer range performance and trajectory. For load development they can be useful in such methods as Newberry's OCW method where a group of two or three 3-shot groups have similar points of impact indicate a load insensitive to large POI shift for small charge increments. Three shots at 100yds with a good known load by a top level benchrech or F Class shooter can probably tell you what the rifle/ammo is capable of. Probably not for the other 95% of us.
Three shots over a chronograph. Is average velocity around 2800 fps or 2900 fps. Probably doable. Is the average 2900 or 2920? Probably not. Is the 5 standard deviation of one group really better than another with a 10 SD? Don't bet your paycheck or 2 cents on that one.
Ultimately what matters is what information you are trying to obtain and understanding what the limitations of are. You can't obtain detailed meaningful statistics from a 3 shot group over a chronograph. You can determine some on target information. You very likely cannot obtain real world group sizes for larger groups than the one that you shot. On target data also must consider the type of firearm that is used. A sporter barrel may put 3 shots touching but throw the next two. It's not designed to be a target rifle but a lightweight, luggable instrument capable of putting two or three rounds into the vital zone of animal. Dispersion at longer distance? Probably a good estimate if you have doped your distances.
Meaningful data is inherently related to what you intend to use the rifle for. For a hunting rifle worrying about a 5 shot group can lead you astray since the important shots or usually the first one or two. If shooting F-class or bench rest then it's important to know what the rifle and ammunition do for the course of fire. A three shot group in and of itself probably doesn't mean much.
I normally check my zero at 100 yds then check again at the max distance I would shoot. My 30/378 shoots about 1 1/4" three shot groups at 100 yds. Not overly impressive. But what is impressive is that it puts the first 2 shots in the same hole at exactly where I want it and maintains that MOA at distance for those 2 shots. If you can't get your game with the first 2 shots from a 30/378 then it's time to hang it up. JMO
DoneNOut
Well-Known Member
Every time you clean. It simulates the fouling until the fouling builds up. So it keeps those first rounds consistent with the rest.
Cannon was to clean a bore then apply some oil and patch it out lightly leaving some in for rust prevention. That's fine, but before its shot it needs dried out completely. Anything oily, wet, case lube, etc wreaks havoc on the first 5-6 rounds. Barrels shoot better fouled with carbon and the graphite simulates that.
I almost always run 3 shot groups. Barrel doesn't get too hot. It also helps practice follow up should I need it. I never adjust my scope based on a single shot unless I have a new scope and am just trying ti be on the target. Once I am within 6 inches of center, I rely on 3 shot groups for adjustment at that point.
If I am doing load development, I prefer 200 yds. And this is purely personal preference based on my experience. I have had 100 yard loads that didn't group so well further out. I have found that if a find a node at 200 it holds up further out. That has not always been my experience with 100 yd.
If I am doing load development, I prefer 200 yds. And this is purely personal preference based on my experience. I have had 100 yard loads that didn't group so well further out. I have found that if a find a node at 200 it holds up further out. That has not always been my experience with 100 yd.
memtb
Well-Known Member
I would "NEVER" make such a boast……the smallest hole that my rifle ( bullet) can make is 3/8" for one shot! I'm pretty certain that 3 shots won't make it any better!
memtb
Lefty38-55
Well-Known Member
What???????? My 30-cals will shoot one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ...I would "NEVER" make such a boast……the smallest hole that my rifle ( bullet) can make is 3/8" for one shot! I'm pretty certain that 3 shots won't make it any better!
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... it's only when I fire a 2nd or 3rd shot that the group tends to open up!
Straight Shooter
Well-Known Member
I shoot 3 shot groups because the groups aren't going to get any smaller after 3 shots.
The most important shot is the first, the cold bore shot. I killed 99% of big game inside 100 yds. Only one at 600 yds. I shoot 5 shot groups to know what happens as the barrel heats up, looking for impact changes. I shoot off hand alot, sitting position, practice. No bench shooting, prone to sight in, also know bullet impact at 10 and 25 yds. And practice on small moving targets like rabbits with your 338 mag and scope set on 2x or 3x scope cause atleast one third are killed on the run, or moving. Off hand shooting almost 100 % of the time, and almost all inside 100 yds. From the mountains, the high desert, and the rainforest, it seemed difficult to find a LR shot but easy to find one at 100 yds or less. I bow hunted for 10 yrs, it was easy to kill a deer every year.
My native American hunting companion killed 10 deer with a bow in a couple weeks of bow hunting season, illegally feeding everyone in his family. And he'd even go into the brush after a fiercely, intensly, angry wounded bear, last observed growling, spinning, and biting at the arrow shafts in his chest,...with a bow. He also strangled wounded or trapped coyotes, to preserve the hides from a bullet hole for more cash per hide, and didn't want to to shoot em.
Hunting, is a differently defined activity, for those who participate, food & hides, to sport hunting, to just shooting.
My native American hunting companion killed 10 deer with a bow in a couple weeks of bow hunting season, illegally feeding everyone in his family. And he'd even go into the brush after a fiercely, intensly, angry wounded bear, last observed growling, spinning, and biting at the arrow shafts in his chest,...with a bow. He also strangled wounded or trapped coyotes, to preserve the hides from a bullet hole for more cash per hide, and didn't want to to shoot em.
Hunting, is a differently defined activity, for those who participate, food & hides, to sport hunting, to just shooting.
