Are the .338s becoming pointless?

[Timnterra]

I have owned only two 338 caliber rifles, one 338 win mag and one 338 lapua. They recoil was fierce on the 7lb win mag, but not a problem at all with the 14lb lapua. I took a trip down the BC and impact velocity are all that matters road and sold almost all mo magnum calibers in favor of smaller lighter recoiling 22, 6, 6.5, 7mm cartridges. Last year changed my mind on this issue. I take several new hunters deer or antelope hunting every year. Last year my loaner gun was America's sweetheart The 6.5 creedmoor. It's easy to shoot has high bc bullets factory ammo shoots lights out and on and on and on... However, I noticed a trend last fall my 6.5 creedmoor claimed the lives of 8 deer and three antelope. Every animal, but one doe antelope Hit at 400yds, needed a second shot to finish the job. I watched two drop instantly and then get back up and start walking away. I've never witnessed this with my other bigger calibers. Everything from 270 up has anchored deer and antelope with a single shot. My new course of action, based upon my experience over the last couple years with small light calibers, is to build a 338 edge. (Actually primarily for elk) I will keep the 6mm and 6.5mm for steel shooting and teaching new shooters but when it comes time for killing at long distance I'm going to be shooting a bigger harder hitting round.

 

[.300 Dakota]

I have owned only two 338 caliber rifles, one 338 win mag and one 338 lapua. They recoil was fierce on the 7lb win mag, but not a problem at all with the 14lb lapua. I took a trip down the BC and impact velocity are all that matters road and sold almost all mo magnum calibers in favor of smaller lighter recoiling 22, 6, 6.5, 7mm cartridges. Last year changed my mind on this issue. I take several new hunters deer or antelope hunting every year. Last year my loaner gun was America's sweetheart The 6.5 creedmoor. It's easy to shoot has high bc bullets factory ammo shoots lights out and on and on and on... However, I noticed a trend last fall my 6.5 creedmoor claimed the lives of 8 deer and three antelope. Every animal, but one doe antelope Hit at 400yds, needed a second shot to finish the job. I watched two drop instantly and then get back up and start walking away. I've never witnessed this with my other bigger calibers. Everything from 270 up has anchored deer and antelope with a single shot. My new course of action, based upon my experience over the last couple years with small light calibers, is to build a 338 edge. (Actually primarily for elk) I will keep the 6mm and 6.5mm for steel shooting and teaching new shooters but when it comes time for killing at long distance I'm going to be shooting a bigger harder hitting round.

Alot depends on bullet construction also. What ammo were they using? 6.5 generally lights out for deer-sized stuff, but can be relative...

 

[Rum Man]

I have owned only two 338 caliber rifles, one 338 win mag and one 338 lapua. They recoil was fierce on the 7lb win mag, but not a problem at all with the 14lb lapua. I took a trip down the BC and impact velocity are all that matters road and sold almost all mo magnum calibers in favor of smaller lighter recoiling 22, 6, 6.5, 7mm cartridges. Last year changed my mind on this issue. I take several new hunters deer or antelope hunting every year. Last year my loaner gun was America's sweetheart The 6.5 creedmoor. It's easy to shoot has high bc bullets factory ammo shoots lights out and on and on and on... However, I noticed a trend last fall my 6.5 creedmoor claimed the lives of 8 deer and three antelope. Every animal, but one doe antelope Hit at 400yds, needed a second shot to finish the job. I watched two drop instantly and then get back up and start walking away. I've never witnessed this with my other bigger calibers. Everything from 270 up has anchored deer and antelope with a single shot. My new course of action, based upon my experience over the last couple years with small light calibers, is to build a 338 edge. (Actually primarily for elk) I will keep the 6mm and 6.5mm for steel shooting and teaching new shooters but when it comes time for killing at long distance I'm going to be shooting a bigger harder hitting round.

AGREED !
338 Class hands down for my family !
Working on a 338 Rum for my Brother now !

Rum Man

 

[.300 Dakota]

Alot depends on bullet construction also. What ammo were they using? 6.5 generally lights out for deer-sized stuff, but can be relative...

I will add that even a blown up bullet from a .338 on deer (if there is such a thing) likely equals a quick, albeit messy, kill.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Not looking to offend or claim they're not effective, BUT...it used to be that the .338 lapua was regarded as in a league apart compared to .300 and 7mms because of the bcs on the 338 bullets. Now this is definitely a thing of the past, with high .7 and even .8 range g1 bc 7mm and .308" bullets that can be driven faster all things equal For true extreme range the big .375s are dominant. For tactical purposes all of the above are way more than adequate antipersonell rounds, body armour or not. None of the above are truly suitable anti material caliber. The way it seems now is that the .33s don't have an advantage over the 7 and 30 trajectory wise and can't match the 375s out of similar size rifles. Nothing wrong with .338 cartridges but not a whole lot I see that would make me choose one with things as they are now. Show me if I'm wrong!

BC does not tell the whole story. You have to wonder how its possible to use the same BC number to describe the front of the bullet AND the side of the bullet. Frontal BC is pretty straight forward but how do you know if the BC number is accurate for the wind value? You would need 1000 yards with wind meters every foot to be able to calculate it. Its an estimate and thats why so many guys that have shot 1000s of rounds at 1k and beyond seem to agree the larger heavier bullets out perform the smaller bores even if the computer/app guys say they should be equal.
The second part of this is, large bores give you a more desirable bore ratio and gets you into faster burning powders. The more over bore you go the more finicky the cartridge gets. When you shoot competition you need the most consistent accuracy you can get and thats why you see cases like the 6br and 284 or 300 wsm, not the 243, 7 mag, and 300 norma. They simply will not shoot the small groups as consistently.

 

[86bowhunter]

I would say no because largely the 338s are as big a caliber as you can really consider for practical use.
What I mean by that is, is yes the 375s are dominating but that's in the extreme competition world. Your average person and even above average person can't afford to build and feed the rigs these guys are running. On top of that 90% of folks don't have access to anywhere they could shoot far enough for a 375 to really have an advantage over a 338.

 

[TxDerek]

Go shoot a 33xc running Badlands 265gr at 3450fps with a 0.475g7 or a Badlands 285gr at 3300 with a 0.520something g7 and then try to have any 7mm or 30cal compete against it, or any of the Cutting Edge bullets. There are very few examples of anything that could keep up. Maybe something like a 300HCM or 300 Raptor or if you decided to make a 30xc and neck the 33 down to a 30. I love 7mm and 30s, I own plenty, but they are nothing like the 33xc, even when running 180-195gr bullets at 3300fps+.

 

[Timnterra]

Alot depends on bullet construction also. What ammo were they using? 6.5 generally lights out for deer-sized stuff, but can be relative...

I was using Berger 140s and ran out of hand loads and Picked up some hornady 140 match (with Amazingly shoot to the same poi and drop as the Berger hand loads out to 1000.) The antelope that dropped was hit with the hornady 140eldm.

 

[Martin@Hin]

Each cartridge has it's place. one is no better than the other if used under the right circumstance.

A 338 would not be usable for squirrel hunting just like a 22 Long rifle would not be recommended for elk. the 338 is at home and in it's element hunting elk size game at distances beyond the range of many smaller cartridges. the problem with bigger cartridges/diameter bullets, is that most people cant take advantage of the extra range while hunting. so they are not used to there limit.

No matter how good the BC"s are or how much downrange energy a cartridge has, you still have to place the shot where it counts. If you are shooting at steel then it doesn't matter what cartridge you are using as long as you ring the steel.

In my opinion, there are no obsolete cartridges. Just the ones that are used improperly and to much is expected of them. To much emphasis is placed on BC's and velocity instead of performance for the intended and proper use. Shot placement and shooter skill is still the most important thing in my opinion, and the proper choice of weapons for the intended use.

Tell someone that their favorite rifle/cartridge is obsolete, and they will tell you how wrong you are because they have had nothing but success with it.

J E CUSTOM

Your right.
On the .33's ,well Elmer said so all along

 

[.300 Dakota]

Go shoot a 33xc running Badlands 265gr at 3450fps with a 0.475g7 or a Badlands 285gr at 3300 with a 0.520something g7 and then try to have any 7mm or 30cal compete against it, or any of the Cutting Edge bullets. There are very few examples of anything that could keep up. Maybe something like a 300HCM or 300 Raptor or if you decided to make a 30xc and neck the 33 down to a 30. I love 7mm and 30s, I own plenty, but they are nothing like the 33xc, even when running 180-195gr bullets at 3300fps+.

I can't get Cutting Edge to group under 2 1/2" @100 yds in anything I've tried them in; what's the secret to loading them accurately?

 

[pwyatt]

Aw crap! News I wasn't aware of! I'll get a list ready, of my .338's and list them for sale so I won't have a bunch of useless rifles. That list will include a 388 Win mag Browning A-bolt, a 340 Weatherby mag, a 338-378 Weatherby mag, and a 338 wildcat based on the .416 Rigby necked down and body taper removed. I guess I need to follow up with an apology to the animals that have expired at the hands of these rifles, including elk, moose, and deer.

 

[JimmyCP]

This. The 338s will get it in time.

There are already bullets out there for it.

Not looking to offend or claim they're not effective, BUT...it used to be that the .338 lapua was regarded as in a league apart compared to .300 and 7mms because of the bcs on the 338 bullets. Now this is definitely a thing of the past, with high .7 and even .8 range g1 bc 7mm and .308" bullets that can be driven faster all things equal For true extreme range the big .375s are dominant. For tactical purposes all of the above are way more than adequate antipersonell rounds, body armour or not. None of the above are truly suitable anti material caliber. The way it seems now is that the .33s don't have an advantage over the 7 and 30 trajectory wise and can't match the 375s out of similar size rifles. Nothing wrong with .338 cartridges but not a whole lot I see that would make me choose one with things as they are now. Show me if I'm wrong!

Hammer Hunter and a lot of the others out there are already making high BC for the 338.
215 to 230 grn bullets only get you so fAR due to energy loss. Yeah you can go with soft tin copper

Not looking to offend or claim they're not effective, BUT...it used to be that the .338 lapua was regarded as in a league apart compared to .300 and 7mms because of the bcs on the 338 bullets. Now this is definitely a thing of the past, with high .7 and even .8 range g1 bc 7mm and .308" bullets that can be driven faster all things equal For true extreme range the big .375s are dominant. For tactical purposes all of the above are way more than adequate antipersonell rounds, body armour or not. None of the above are truly suitable anti material caliber. The way it seems now is that the .33s don't have an advantage over the 7 and 30 trajectory wise and can't match the 375s out of similar size rifles. Nothing wrong with .338 cartridges but not a whole lot I see that would make me choose one with things as they are now. Show me if I'm wrong!

225 to 330 grn bullets only get you so far and loose their energy. If bullet make up is too soft giving you that longer bullet for t

Not looking to offend or claim they're not effective, BUT...it used to be that the .338 lapua was regarded as in a league apart compared to .300 and 7mms because of the bcs on the 338 bullets. Now this is definitely a thing of the past, with high .7 and even .8 range g1 bc 7mm and .308" bullets that can be driven faster all things equal For true extreme range the big .375s are dominant. For tactical purposes all of the above are way more than adequate antipersonell rounds, body armour or not. None of the above are truly suitable anti material caliber. The way it seems now is that the .33s don't have an advantage over the 7 and 30 trajectory wise and can't match the 375s out of similar size rifles. Nothing wrong with .338 cartridges but not a whole lot I see that would make me choose one with things as they are now. Show me if I'm wrong!

Lol, apples and oranges. Here's two examples of hammer hunter bullets converted from g7 to g1. Until you spin an elk off the ground

Not looking to offend or claim they're not effective, BUT...it used to be that the .338 lapua was regarded as in a league apart compared to .300 and 7mms because of the bcs on the 338 bullets. Now this is definitely a thing of the past, with high .7 and even .8 range g1 bc 7mm and .308" bullets that can be driven faster all things equal For true extreme range the big .375s are dominant. For tactical purposes all of the above are way more than adequate antipersonell rounds, body armour or not. None of the above are truly suitable anti material caliber. The way it seems now is that the .33s don't have an advantage over the 7 and 30 trajectory wise and can't match the 375s out of similar size rifles. Nothing wrong with .338 cartridges but not a whole lot I see that would make me choose one with things as they are now. Show me if I'm wrong!

Not sure what your taliking about. Hammer Hunters and others have way more energy at longer ranges. Here's some hammers I use.

 

[.300 Dakota]

I was using Berger 140s and ran out of hand loads and Picked up some hornady 140 match (with Amazingly shoot to the same poi and drop as the Berger hand loads out to 1000.) The antelope that dropped was hit with the hornady 140eldm.

Hmmm... I gave my 6.5x284 to my guide as a tip once, and he loaned it to a client with HSM 140gr Bergers. The guy killed a 6x7 bull at 457 yards ranges with it. Now he DID put 3 rounds in the elk before it fell over seconds later - all 3 hitting the boiler room. Draw your own conclusions there I guess, but my guide wouldn't let the clients use the 120gr Ballistic Tips I'd used hopped up to 3300 f/s at the muzzle. My mule deer was trotting quartering away at 137 yards when hit center rib cage with the 120 gr BTs... made it 5 yards, likely carried by momentum. My guides beef was that it blew a 2" hole through the off side ribs which he was planning to offer to the local farmer whose alfalfa field the deer ran out of through the sage. I didn't care about ribs, and I saw perfect performance with blood sprayed everywhere in the 5yd zone. My objective was to put the animal down. And I've done it with that same bullet in both 6.5x284N and 6.5x47L DRT. Something about the way the 6.5mm 120gr BT has to be jacketed makes it much less susceptible to blowing up (I have read somewhere), and the 120gr 7mm BT jacket is perhaps even stronger, according to that source. Maybe try a 140gr BT (not Accubond!) in that Creedmoor if you want a slight bit extra energy or BC before you totally swear off the cartridge for deer and antelope. But yes, for elk, I'd go back to what you did before.

 

[jimbires]

I'm not in any hurry to get ride of my 338 lapua . I went 5 for 8 on a 24" sq plate at 2375