Annealing Question ???

check out 6mmbr's website on annealing. Very good article if you have the time.

Yes it is. It is the article I recommend to my buddy, I myself am going to read it again, it has been a few years.

Not really.

Temp lacquer is always better. Color is deceptive. Every time you anneal the color is different. You get less color with every annealing because the minerals that induce the color burn off. So you tend to over do it.

Good to know. I will give the temp lacquer a try also on some 6.5x47 brass I have that is on its 4th firing




I would recommend practicing with the templaq until you can get a feel for it at the very least. I think it would be pretty hard to spin that case where the neck is heated evenly all the way around without some sort of machine. If you heat the bottom of that case too much.........

I feel like I myself have been annealing at the right temperatures and been pulling the brass before it gets to hot just from the extended case life I have got out of some .223 Winchester brass I have worked with, but I will try the lacquer the next time I anneal to know for sure. Eventually I will get an annealing machine, but for now I'm sticking with the drill. I understand it cannot match machine consistency, but it seems to have benifits over not annealing at all.
 
I was told by my custom gun builder to never quench in water. I have a Bench Source case annealer and they don't suggest using water either.
 
There are lots of common misconceptions about annealing that are so common because no one who knows ever explains it in a detailed enough manner and those who do are not metallurgist that can back it up with undebatable proof. Which does not exist on internet forums.

There are a few things most will agree upon.

Consistent and regular annealing will yeild consitent case necks that provide consistent properties and result in more consistent shot to shot accuracy. If you cant do this sometimes annealing less often or not at all may be a better option.

Quenching does not affect the hardness of non ferrous alloys.

Use caution to not anneal the area around or including the head. This is bad!

Most reloaders are seeking a restorative anneal, ie trying to return the brass to the condition it was in before firing. By annealing at a temperature to high you can fully anneal brass returning it to the softest state it is capable of being in. This can also be done by increasing the duration of a givin heat.

As heat increases the duration of time it takes to anneal becomes shorter.

Brass can be hardened by working it, ie work hardening. The greater the work the faster it hardends.

All brands vary in dimensions and composition, and one cannot assume they will respond the same to the same annealing process.

Manufactures use work hardening and annealing to control what parts of the case are hard, which are soft, and to what degree.
 
Yes, to truly understand annealing, you must do metallurgy research. Brass is very different than other metals.
 
There are lots of common misconceptions about annealing that are so common because no one who knows ever explains it in a detailed enough manner and those who do are not metallurgist that can back it up with undebatable proof. Which does not exist on internet forums.

There are a few things most will agree upon.

Consistent and regular annealing will yeild consitent case necks that provide consistent properties and result in more consistent shot to shot accuracy. If you cant do this sometimes annealing less often or not at all may be a better option.

Quenching does not affect the hardness of non ferrous alloys.

Use caution to not anneal the area around or including the head. This is bad!

Most reloaders are seeking a restorative anneal, ie trying to return the brass to the condition it was in before firing. By annealing at a temperature to high you can fully anneal brass returning it to the softest state it is capable of being in. This can also be done by increasing the duration of a givin heat.

As heat increases the duration of time it takes to anneal becomes shorter.

Brass can be hardened by working it, ie work hardening. The greater the work the faster it hardends.

All brands vary in dimensions and composition, and one cannot assume they will respond the same to the same annealing process.

Manufactures use work hardening and annealing to control what parts of the case are hard, which are soft, and to what degree.
Your quote regarding brass can be work hardened is only partially correct.
Brass that is at the correct grain structure can be worked and annealed indefinitely, but brass that has been sortened too much, by annealing past 650ºF, cannot be re-hardened, it is ruined as cartridge brass and should be scrapped.
Annealing correctly is balancing flame temperature and time, done correctly, it can outlast the user.

Cheers.
lightbulb
 
So do you anneal and then resize or resize and then anneal? I know it done every so often and not every time. Reason asking is I resized some brass and then annealed second time doing and I think I have a little spring back in the brass after annealing. The shoulder is now tight when chambered and one case I could not close the bolt. So I have to pull and resize again. Any prescribed method that may be better? Is only my second time annealing and it was done by hand. I did trash some cases on purpose just see the different aspects/color the brass takes on when over heater. The was actually a little fun. I made one case almost completely blue.
 
So do you anneal and then resize or resize and then anneal? I know it done every so often and not every time. Reason asking is I resized some brass and then annealed second time doing and I think I have a little spring back in the brass after annealing. The shoulder is now tight when chambered and one case I could not close the bolt. So I have to pull and resize again. Any prescribed method that may be better? Is only my second time annealing and it was done by hand. I did trash some cases on purpose just see the different aspects/color the brass takes on when over heater. The was actually a little fun. I made one case almost completely blue.
I anneal after every firing.
 

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So do you anneal and then resize or resize and then anneal? I know it done every so often and not every time. Reason asking is I resized some brass and then annealed second time doing and I think I have a little spring back in the brass after annealing. The shoulder is now tight when chambered and one case I could not close the bolt. So I have to pull and resize again. Any prescribed method that may be better? Is only my second time annealing and it was done by hand. I did trash some cases on purpose just see the different aspects/color the brass takes on when over heater. The was actually a little fun. I made one case almost completely blue.

In my standard factory chambers WITHOUT tight necks, I anneal every 3rd sizing, so in other words, after the 4th firing, I anneal BEFORE sizing those cases.
In my LR/Target rifles with TIGHT necks, I anneal after every firing but before sizing.

Cheers.
gun)
 
Your quote regarding brass can be work hardened is only partially correct.
Brass that is at the correct grain structure can be worked and annealed indefinitely, but brass that has been sortened too much, by annealing past 650ºF, cannot be re-hardened, it is ruined as cartridge brass and should be scrapped.
Annealing correctly is balancing flame temperature and time, done correctly, it can outlast the user.

Cheers.
lightbulb

We argued over this very same thing a while back in another thread, and i respecfully disagree. I and others have restored hardness to brass by sizing it up and then back down repeatedly.
 
We argued over this very same thing a while back in another thread, and i respecfully disagree. I and others have restored hardness to brass by sizing it up and then back down repeatedly.

Yep, MM has no clue what he's talking about. I anneal every firing and get the brass to over 750 degrees each time. I have no problem getting ES below 12 on all my guns and bullets seat very even on my Hydro press.
 
Yep, MM has no clue what he's talking about. I anneal every firing and get the brass to over 750 degrees each time. I have no problem getting ES below 12 on all my guns and bullets seat very even on my Hydro press.

The most important thing is repeating the process consistenly. Once you do, tune the load accordingly and it should repeat. Obviously you already know this!
 
We argued over this very same thing a while back in another thread, and i respecfully disagree. I and others have restored hardness to brass by sizing it up and then back down repeatedly.

So how many times do you resize the over annealed brass in order to restore it to correct hardness???
 
So how many times do you resize the over annealed brass in order to restore it to correct hardness???

I dont resize. I neck up and then back down. A trick i learned from kirby allen a while back. Kirby is well versed in the properties of brass from all the radical case forming he has done. Surely if he was available he would share some wisdom.
This like many things is dependent on the brass and how soft it has become. Do it until it will hold a bullet firmly.

Mind you this is a last ditch effort to save brass, not something practiced regularly.
 
All that's gonna give you is a case that holds a bullet. That case is still different from the rest and you don't have any way to test it for hardness. It will throw a flier.

The 650 degree recommendation is the best suggestion. What I have seen is temp increases 100 degrees per second. Trying to hit 750 on the mark is difficult. Overdoing it is easy. Waiting for an orange glow is overdoing it.
 
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