ammonia in coppermelt

[4ked Horn]

Jim thanks for filling us in on what you and Roland did regarding your steel experiments. That should kill any fear that a caustic salt might harm anyones barrel.

I should say that I didn't see any bickering on this particular subject stemming from this particular question. Maybe some speculation but thats fine as long as it is recognised as such and not forwarded as fact.

I have to admit that I instantly thought it was the ammonia that was the active ingredient and that the enzyme some how facilitated the penetration of it into the copper. Had the question not been asked I, and I'm sure many others who love this cleaner (and may just be reading along ), would have never known that the ammonia levels are lower than other cleaners and ammonia is not really the primary factor in its efficient action. At $30 a bottle (of which I own 3) I think some questions are to be expected.

I say, keep the questions coming. (and go buy it and try it as well /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif)

 

[goodgrouper]

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I should say that I didn't see any bickering on this particular subject stemming from this particular question. Maybe some speculation but thats fine as long as it is recognised as such and not forwarded as fact.


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You took the words right out of my mouth. Questions are great and are necessary. We could do without the harmful speculations though. Salt is good on pretzels, not in a cleaner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[bailey1474]

gonehuntingagain,

Right on. That is exactly what an enzyme does, speeds up a chemical reaction.

 

[Jimm]

err,ahh I did buy some !

Stuck my nose to it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif and that's when I posted the question.And yes, I have been using it.

You see , when I buy a bottle of Butches Bore Shine for 6.99 per 4oz. Then buy a 16 oz. can of GM top engine cleaner for the same price only to discover the active ingredients are the same /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif. I think it is all right to ask questions .... even if all others involved think it has been duly addressed and resolved.

There is no enmity here, just a desire to understand or try to answer the questions that come to mind while using /experimenting with the various tools /components of this sport.
I plan on doing a photo comparison of the cleaning process using various cleaners now that my new bbls are broken in. All parameters will be listed an d effort will be made to insure each product is being used on bbls. that have the same amount of fouling with the same powder .No way I can address all variables /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif However if a particular is heads above the others it will show.

Jim Brown

 

[ricka0]

I'm doing tests for an article in VHP. Unlike many tests, these will be well designed & repeatable (ie, scientific). I'm working with a couple PhD chemists. Unfortunately coppermelt didn't make the cut - I can't test a product joe average can't buy and that doesn't have a web site (sans 22 deg baume and 26 deg baume Ammonia). My guess is that the free and nearly free ammonia will handily beat all other copper removers - but the tests will prove what works best. I've got wipe out + accelerator that many folks swear by.

 

[jb1000br]

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I should say that I didn't see any bickering on this particular subject stemming from this particular question. Maybe some speculation but thats fine as long as it is recognised as such and not forwarded as fact.


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You took the words right out of my mouth. Questions are great and are necessary. We could do without the harmful speculations though. Salt is good on pretzels, not in a cleaner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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More Speculations /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif --> Buffer Solutions

 

[goodgrouper]

What is your point?

Are you saying that there must be salt in Coppermelt, or are you just saying salt is a buffer commonly used but you don't know for sure that it is in Coppermelt because you have never researched the exact makeup of Coppermelt? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[brian b]

jb1000br,
I have read more than 100 of your 728 posts, you are the #1 malcontent on this forum. The next time you say anything good about something that was not your idea will be the first time, go kick the crap out of the neighbors dog and come back with a fresh approach tomorrow.
B

 

[ricka0]

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When we met with Good groupers bunch we spoke of the coppermelt affecting steel. One of the guys said that they applied coppermelt to gunsteel (4140 and stainless I think) for a period of time and saw no sign of discoloration or damage.


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Long ago GG mentioned his buddy's 50 BMG lost all accuracy after cleaning with strong ammonia. I said that was not possible, as tests (similar to the above) show Ammonia cannot react with gun steel. The test was a member of the 50 community took a section of gun barrel, filled it with strong ammonia, sealed it for a week then inspected it. Sounds like definitive proof Ammonia is OK. The chemists I'm working with pointed out the test is invalid for the following reasons: <ul type="square"> [*]Ammonia needs free oxygen to react with copper and other metals - a filled/sealed barrel prevents free oxygen [*]It's possible Ammonia is reacting with the few nickle, chromium or other essential atoms in the matrix - and the inspection approach would not revel that problem. [/list] Both chemists tell me that I cannot claim strong ammonia is safe until I repeat the test with a continuous air bubble - then after a week have the ammonia analyzed via gas chromatography to verify there are no nickle, chrome, etc reactants.

I'm sure coppermelt has done these tests and that it is a safe product - but a simple soaking an inspection is inadequate to prove such. I don't think Ammonia does attack gun steel, but several ammonia based cleaners explicitly warn against leaving it in your barrel for an extended period. Maybe GG buddy was right.

I would love to add coppermelt to my tests but the VHP editor isn't interested unless I can list commercial sources and I can talk to someone from the company.

 

[sniperVLS]

hmmm

it could be nearing that time when a mandatory group hug is called upon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif