All Around Mountain Rifle Build

[WildRose]

GOT SCHOOLED TODAY

Went to Sportsman's Warehouse today and examined the Browning X-Bolts and SAKO 85 rifles and truly got schooled. I was amazed at how the Browning X-Bolt actions were even smoother than the SAKO actions.

And the Browning triggers with their new leverage setup were just as good as the SAKO triggers. And that's saying a LOT.

Then the Browning X-Bolt prices were around $900. less and that's with Cerakote finish.

*Went back home and fondled my .300 Win mag Browning A-Bolt with renewed respect.

Now I can say that I'm looking very closely at the Browning X-Bolt rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor and no longer looking at the SAKO 85. I don't know if I'll keep the A-Bolt or not. It is "kinda customized" with the following:
1. black military grade custom Teflon finish over stainless steel (The rifle is a Stainless Stalker model)
2. extra Browning stock - laminated thumbhole, Marine Tex bedded and pillared
3. extra magazine
4. extra BOSS "brake" - solid but still micrometer adjustable, for those that don't like the blast of brakes (like guides ;o).
5. original polymer stock bedded and pillared with Bisonite
6. NECO fire lapped barrel - copper build up is very s l o w with this smooth barrel.

That's a lot of extras for one rifle.

Eric B.
BTW, the B.O.S.S. brake system is a micrometer adjustable brake that adjusts the barrel harmonics to different bullets/loads for maximum accuracy. It works.

My experience with the BOSS system is that it's a horrible substitute for a good muzzle brake and a huge pain in the butt to attempt to tune. I always found it much easier to replace them with a decent brake and then tune a load to the rifle.

 

[WildRose]

The 300 WM will give you way more versatility with bullet selection and knock down power. When hunting deer or sheep, use light bullets. Want to hunt elk, go with 180 or above. I have a Tikka 300WM that I upgraded. I put it on a McMillan Sako Hunter stock, changed the bottom floor plate to aluminum, and glass bedded it. I wanted the aluminum floor plate because if I torqued it over 30 inch pounds the plastic one flexed and was binding the magazine. The aluminum is torqued to 60 inch pounds with no problems. I'm shooting 200 grain accubonds but they are to the very edge of the magazine. It weighs in at 8 pounds but with the 200 grain bullets the recoil is quite a punch and I'm a pretty big fella. After a box of bullets, I have had enough and that is over a long period of time to allow for barrel cooling. It is a joy to carry but a bitch to shoot. The difference being, I can carry it all day but only shoot it for a second. Go with the 300WM 24 inch barrel and break it. With the wide variety in bullets, you can hunt just about anything. With a break on it, you'll be able to shoot it comfortably even with heavy bullets.

I'm still in this boat as well. 7mm Rem, 7mm STW, .300wm, or .300wsm. The .30's give you more than adequate energy and ballistics for anything in N. America with a fair margin of error and with a decent brake any of those four are no problem to shoot even in a relatively light platform.

My lightweight .300 Rum is one of my favorite all time rifles.

 

[WildRose]

[QUOTE="Blueman, post:
270 WSM 1:8 for the 170 Berger, 165 matrix, or 150 LRAB (I like that it can go heavy, but no crazy recoil)
7 SAUM/7 WSM 1:8/9 for any 160-180 gn bullets, there are lots to choose from. (this is harder to buy in stores if I'm in a pinch and need ammo.)
300 WSM 1:10 for anything in the 180-210 gn range. (My concern with the 30 cal is the recoil)6.5 cals seem a little small for elk imho, especially when shooting out to 6-700 yds

After reading all the responses and rereading your original post this is my opinion on the matter.
- 270 wsm is the best choice
1. It has the lowest recoil of the three short mag caliber choices.
2. It has widely available brass and factory ammo if you so desire. (This is the problem with both 7mm short mags)
3. Bullet selection is fine, pick the bullets you mentioned and shoot the one that your rifle likes the best. (This hand is over played by the 30 caliber crowd, I don't care if there are 110-230 grain bullets I'm only going to shoot one of them! And it will be near the top of the weight spectrum)
4. 270 has the lightest bullets listed with the same powder column as the others which equates to the fastest velocity and should help counter balance the velocity lost with the shorter barrel.
I have owned rifles in all the calibers you listed and they will all work, but I think the 270 is the best choice for what you are wanting to do.[/QUOTE]Personally with that criteria I'd either go with a 6.5 or 7mm rather than the .270 due to the much better bullet selections available. You certainly aren't gaining anything of value with the .270 over the .264.

Something like my 6.5 LRM or the 7mm LRM would be ideal for your purposes.

 

[Bearrugs]

Blueman I sent you a pm

 

[LDHunter]

Does anyone have a 6-7 lb 300 wsm, what's the recoil like?

I used to have a 6.8 pound 300WSM and the recoil was nothing short of FEROCIOUS. I sold it and never looked back. A brake would surely have mostly solved that but I LOATH brakes and the insane hearing damaging noise they make.

I replaced it with a 300SAUM and still have that rifle but still recoil is an issue for me but not nearly as bad as the 300WSM.

When I hit the 7SAUM I found my sweet spot. Very comfortable recoil in a 6.8 pound rifle (plus scope) and good accuracy with very little amount of finicky tendencies.

HOWEVER!!! Brass is VERY hard to find and although I easily have a lifetime supply I'd never go there again.

Here's my dilemma... I share your fear that the 6.5 cartridges might not have enough umph for elk. There are way more elk knowledgeable people here than I and I defer to them on whether 6.5's are adequate for elk but I still think I might just be glad I kept my 300SAUM if I get lucky enough to have the time and opportunity for another elk hunt one day.

I'm about to have a 6.5PRC built as a 7 pound rifle (plus scope) and intend to use it for target shooting and hunting for everything from coyotes up to but not including elk but I'd probably at LEAST use my 7SAUM and likely a 300SAUM for my next elk hunt.

It's not just that a 6.5 might be too light. I like to absolutely anchor my game I shoot and I'm getting long enough in the tooth to consider trailing up and retrieving wounded game from impossible places to be a hardship rather than an adventure. LOL

Nobody but you can make your decision but you must carefully weigh loading components and factory ammo availability if you think there's a possibility of your rifle and ammo being separated on a flight. Personally I want to drive on any of my hunts so I can make sure the meat is handled properly and I can take all the gear I want with no fear of it being lost or damaged by baggage manglers.

 

[Timnterra]

Personally with that criteria I'd either go with a 6.5 or 7mm rather than the .270 due to the much better bullet selections available. You certainly aren't gaining anything of value with the .270 over the .264.

Something like my 6.5 LRM or the 7mm LRM would be ideal for your purposes.[/QUOTE]


I agree with your 6.5mm comment. I would have recommended building a 6.5 saum because it beats the 270wsm in Ballistics and recoil and the 7wsm in recoil. But the OP said he was unsure of 6.5's for elk and it still has the problem of brass availability. If he had a standard bolt Face I would recommend going with the 6.5-284...

 

[Danehunter]

If you want a TRUE "mountain" rifle then that means light weight. And that means avoiding a longer, heavier action such as with the .300 Win mag.

To me a "mountain" rifle should be capable of killing mountain game at long distances and that's where 6.5 mm bullets thrive with their great ballistic coefficients in many weights. To equal the 6.5mm BCs you have to go to 215 or 230 grain .30 caliber bullets. That's a lot of recoil. (Don't ask how I know.)

Is the 6.5 Creedmor not enough for your purposes? Then go to the new and very potent 6.5 PRC (Precision Rifle Cartridge). It's a bit faster than the 6.5/284.
Personally I feel the 6.5 Creed will handle elk to 500 yards with 143 to 150 grain bullets. But for the 6.5 PRC barreled with a 1:7 twist you can go with heavier bullets with amazing BCs. You still get that lighter short action.

And hey, spend a mortgage payment and go for a Proof Research carbon fiber wrapped barrel for ultimate light weight and accuracy.

Eric B.

 

[WildRose]

If you want a TRUE "mountain" rifle then that means light weight. And that means avoiding a longer, heavier action such as with the .300 Win mag.

To me a "mountain" rifle should be capable of killing mountain game at long distances and that's where 6.5 mm bullets thrive with their great ballistic coefficients in many weights. To equal the 6.5mm BCs you have to go to 215 or 230 grain .30 caliber bullets. That's a lot of recoil. (Don't ask how I know.)

Is the 6.5 Creedmor not enough for your purposes? Then go to the new and very potent 6.5 PRC (Precision Rifle Cartridge). It's a bit faster than the 6.5/284.
Personally I feel the 6.5 Creed will handle elk to 500 yards with 143 to 150 grain bullets. But for the 6.5 PRC barreled with a 1:7 twist you can go with heavier bullets with amazing BCs. You still get that lighter short action.

And hey, spend a mortgage payment and go for a Proof Research carbon fiber wrapped barrel for ultimate light weight and accuracy.

Eric B.

The difference in a long and short action is only about 4 oz.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Four ounces is the difference in a Swarovski z5 5-25X52 and a Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50. So I chose the z5 until it went to the shop twice.

 

[jvr]

A little off topic here but. Does anyone feel the recoil when your shooting at something breathing? I still get the juice when stalking a rabbit. (With a 22)

From the bench or a competition. That's a different story. My 7.5 lb 300 rum kicks like a 10 gauge bps. Shouldered right. I don't remember it going off while hunting.

Good luck on the build. There has been a lot of great info posted.

 

[walter crouse]

Ok gents, here's the scoop. My brother and I are wanting to build some light weight mountain rifles. I have a 10.5 lb STW for when the terriain is more favorable. I hunt in some nasty steep terrain. I cannot afford titanium actions, so don't go there. I've got a tikka in 300 win mag that I want to re-barrel with a proof sendero light, and possible do some work on the bolt to lighten it up. I'm planning on using a MPI lightweight stock (or similar), and optics no heavier than 20 oz. The build will mostly be for elk and mule deer, sheep if I draw before I die. My questions is, what caliber should I go with? And how long of a barrel? I'm thinking 22"?
Some of the calibers I've been thinking of are:
270 WSM 1:8 for the 170 Berger, 165 matrix, or 150 LRAB (I like that it can go heavy, but no crazy recoil)
7 SAUM/7 WSM 1:8/9 for any 160-180 gn bullets, there are lots to choose from. (this is harder to buy in stores if I'm in a pinch and need ammo.)
300 WSM 1:10 for anything in the 180-210 gn range. (My concern with the 30 cal is the recoil)
6.5 cals seem a little small for elk imho, especially when shooting out to 6-700 yds.

I do plan to put a titanium break on to reduce recoil. I'm pretty set on these few choices, just want some opinions. I'm proficient at reloading so that's what I plan on doing. Also don't try to convince me of SS Mag, they are interesting, but I want something with no fire forming.

Thanks in advance

I go with the 300 wsm . Finding brass and ammo will be.easier. I like the 300 wsm and I think it should have a 24" barrel.

 

[Blueman]

I like all the input here, I'm glad to see a few people to weigh in on the 270 wsm. Litehiker you have a good point. A true mountain rifle mean lightweight, and thats what I'm after. I know some people are 6.5 guys, I'm just on board with a 6.5 got elk. Last season my brother made a good shot on a 6 point bull at 325 yds and it dropped to the ground and when out of sight. 30-45 mins later when we got there the bull was still on his feet. I just like having at lease 150-160 grain bullet minimum for elk, I understand an elk can be killed with a 243, I just like the extra assurance. With that said, my thought process was 270 WSM, because it gives me enough horsepower, yet won't recoil like a mule. I'd like to shoot some lightweight 300 wsm with ~200 gn bullet to gauge recoil.

 

[dougduey]

Just an FYI, one of the Eastman's, I believe it's Guy, has hunted elk, deer and pronghorn for years with a 270 WSM. One of my hunting buddies owns one, too. Never had a problem killing elk, although he really doesn't shoot anything past 500 yards.
That being said, over the years I've seen a lot of cartridge choices in elk camp. Mostly 7 Rem Mag or 300 Win mag, but the occasional 30-06 and 338 Win Mag and all of them killed the elk. When talking to most of the guides and outfitters, they tend to favor the 300 RUM. A lot of elk have been killed with a .243 and 270 over the years. Hell, they've been killing moose in Europe with a 6.5x55 for years. You've got a ton of choices. I tend to like something that makes a bigger hole, so it's a .30 cal or bigger for me. My newer 338 Lapua weighs only 7.1 lbs bare, and it's what I'm taking on a mountain goat hunt on Kodiak Island in a little over a month.
My best advice is to get the largest caliber you are comfortable shooting and pick which cartridge you want your rifle chambered in. Then get good and comfortable shooting it. Pick an appropriate bullet(s) for the quarry you are going to hunt, and get proficient at shooting those bullets. Shot placement, as you know, trumps everything, but the larger calibers give you a little more "fudge factor" if you don't make the perfect shot. My 300 WSM with a brake is what works well for me, and, has never let me down

 

[Danehunter]

The .300 RUM is WAY too much for elk. Maybe OK for Kodiak brown bear but that cartridge is a hell of a kicker and a barrel burner (IF you could stand to shoot 800 rounds).

.300 Win mag or .300 Norma mag is very sufficient for elk if you want a .30 caliber magnum.

6.5 PRC is fine for all elk at up to 800 - 900 yards/meters.

Eric B.