Alec Baldwin charged with Involuntary Manslaughter
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dmj
Well-Known Member
I probably should just keep my opinions to myself. BUT. If I had a firearm and had taken apart to the point that there couldn't be any ammo in it, then put it back together and double checked to ensure it was free of ammo I still wouldn't point it at anyone let alone pull the trigger.
Your words are my words EXACTLY! I am NOT one of his fans but IMO: The armorer has the first AND last word on everything weapons-related. Also My Opinion: They are, of course, going after his money moreso than him. I totally agree with you, spot-on.
When they bypass the armorer and leave her out of the loop and the assistant director hands him the gun and says cold gun how can she be totally responsible?
A drunk driver kills somebody they don't go after the car or the car manufacturer.
Alec held the gun, pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. He hired and produced the project and he himself skirted safety regulations.
He definitely had some culpability if not direct liability for what happened.
"In order to obtain a conviction of Involuntary Manslaughter, the prosecution must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, the following legal elements:
That the defendant caused an unlawful, while unintentional, killing. In other words, there was no legal justification for the killing (such as self-defense,) and the defendant intended to commit the act or conduct that ultimately caused the death. However, the prosecution does not need to prove that the defendant intended to cause the death that resulted from his conduct;
That the victim's death was caused by wanton or reckless conduct, meaning that the defendant's actions created a high degree of likelihood that substantial and serious harm would result to another person; and
The wanton or reckless conduct that the defendant engaged in, in fact caused the victim's death."
Good luck Alec. You're gonna need a lot of it, to avoid a guilty verdict.
That the defendant caused an unlawful, while unintentional, killing. In other words, there was no legal justification for the killing (such as self-defense,) and the defendant intended to commit the act or conduct that ultimately caused the death. However, the prosecution does not need to prove that the defendant intended to cause the death that resulted from his conduct;
That the victim's death was caused by wanton or reckless conduct, meaning that the defendant's actions created a high degree of likelihood that substantial and serious harm would result to another person; and
The wanton or reckless conduct that the defendant engaged in, in fact caused the victim's death."
Good luck Alec. You're gonna need a lot of it, to avoid a guilty verdict.
xsn10s
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It's all in this article. It's obvious he's guilty. Also since he's been in the movie industry for decades he knows the dangers of having firearms on his set. Ultimately the liability rests on him as the producer even if he didn't pull the trigger. https://people.com/movies/alec-baldwin-missed-required-firearm-training-prior-to-rust-shooting/
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
There is nothing in that story that suggests illegal conduct to me. There are so many rumors going around that it's hard to even form an opinion on this. Some have stated that Baldwin and his crew were shooting that gun with live ammo, for recreational purposes, at some point prior to the accidental shooting. If that were true, I'd feel differently about who is/isn't responsible. However, that isn't even mentioned among the various details.
The fact that the gun was pointed at someone during the rehearsal doesn't raise alarms to me. Virtually every western movie made in the last 100yrs has actors pointing guns (real or otherwise) at other people and firing them. Realism is what Hollywood is all about. Making dummy ammo that is an exact replica to real ammo is part of the process. Baldwin was, reportedly, handed a gun and was told that it was cold. This is apparently the protocol used before rehearsals or live filming.
Like I said, I don't care for Baldwin any more than most, but I fail to see any criminal liability on his part. Whomever is primarily responsible for the live ammo being on the set sure isn't talking, but the armorer would likely be responsible for everything gun related on the entire set.
Lastly: It's sad that Hutchinson (sp) lost her life for Hollywood to have learned an important lesson. There really is no justification to have any real firearms or ammunition on a Hollywood set.
KyCarl
Well-Known Member
He did it...He should pay the price!
Those are the rules for us commoners, we'll see if it applies here. I have my doubts.
I don't wish Mr Baldwin any ill will, but this incident is proof positive that the NRA sponsored gun training we all had as kids is effective. If Mr Baldwin had, himself, inspected that firearm we would never have heard of the incident.
It's an incredibly sad deal for all involved, but hopefully if nothing else those in the movie industry will learn a valuable lesson.
Bob Wright
Well-Known Member
Since it was his budget movie production and his action he's responsible for the 2 victims in this shooting.
The armorer is also negligent and should also be charged. Anyone in the chain of custody has responsibility.
The case is also a botched example of investigation. That needs internal review as well.
I don't think Baldwin is getting jail time but that's to be seen. Elitists seem to always skate responsibility.
The armorer is also negligent and should also be charged. Anyone in the chain of custody has responsibility.
The case is also a botched example of investigation. That needs internal review as well.
I don't think Baldwin is getting jail time but that's to be seen. Elitists seem to always skate responsibility.
Out of curiosity if someone you know hands you a gun and tells you it's cold do you then point it at someone (who isn't even in the movie) and pull the hammer back and pull the trigger or do you verify for yourself before you potentially take somones life?
If your answer is you take the other persons word for it and kill someone do you take responsibility yourself or blame the person that told you it was empty?
The worst part about it is Alec Baldwin doesn't even take any responsibility for his actions.
Went on an interview and cried like he was the victim.
He didn't pull the trigger? Bull****!
Went on an interview and cried like he was the victim.
He didn't pull the trigger? Bull****!
xsn10s
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The technical advisors I knew said the movie industry changed quite a bit after Brandon Lee's death. Many sets wouldn't allow a firearm that could fire live ammunition on their sets. That meant prop guns that couldn't fire ammo. Since Alec hired the technical advisor which wasn't qualified he's responsible/ liable. All they have to prove is he was negligent. Since he missed the safety training which was required it should be easy to prove he's negligent. I don't see a problem with finding him guilty.
If there are so many "rumors floating around that it's hard to form an opinion" then why are you saying its ridiculous? Do you think maybe the investigators and prosecutor may have information thats not rumor? Like maybe accounts from people that were there?
