• If you are being asked to change your password, and unsure how to do it, follow these instructions. Click here

Africa perfect rifle for elephant,buffalo,plains game?

One rifle the .375 H&H in my safe. Two loads. Barnes 235 grain TSX...

I dearly love that bullet in my Winchester M70 375 H&H with a 26 inch barrel. It does a magnificent job on American Buffalo. Close range head shot shattered the skull, bullet wasn't recovered, muzzle velocity very close to 2900. Also extremely accurate.

My Remington is a 22 inch barrel and gets the Hornady and Sierra 220/200g flatpoints for deer hunting at 375Win velocities.
 
[...]Doubles are fine untill the going gets really dirty. You only need a small amount of crud on the face and you only had two shots. (something that doesn't get much airplay in current publications).[...]

Seriously? Bolt rifles never Jam?

The more relevant issue assuming you could only have "one" rifle for dangerous and plains game would be accuracy to 100-200-300+ yds. Doubles aren't great for longer ranges. Or, they get expensive to tune and regulate with and without scopes. So, a bolt tends to work better (far less expensive to do so anyway).

In any case, your PH will almost certainly carry a double to back you up. And, he can/will put more lead down range faster than you can with a bolt.

-- richard
 
I have both the 375 wby and the 378 wby. The 375 wby will shoot a 375 H&H just fine in it and maintain good accuracy. The 378 is a completely different monster using a case all it's own. Roy wanted it to be similar in capacity to the 416 Rigby case but with a belt and the radius shoulder.
 
I dearly love that bullet in my Winchester M70 375 H&H with a 26 inch barrel. It does a magnificent job on American Buffalo. Close range head shot shattered the skull, bullet wasn't recovered, muzzle velocity very close to 2900. Also extremely accurate.

My Remington is a 22 inch barrel and gets the Hornady and Sierra 220/200g flatpoints for deer hunting at 375Win velocities.

I had a .375 Winchester in a Ruger # 3 that we started a few kids with. if you can find them the 250 power points make an awesome deer load.
Back in the day I liked the old Barnes 270 grain spitzer as my general load in the H&H. Those kids we started are now grown, and have rifles in .300 RUM or Edge with Nightforce scopes etc., still stop by to borrow the old H&H, or bicker about who gets it when I'm gone. Grand old cartridge that offers a hundred years of boring reliability.
 
Seriously? Very Bolt rifles never Jam? Of course they do. You will have less chance of a Mauser jamming because of the inbuilt slack in the action. This is not a fault of manufacture but a design feature to assist in operating in foul conditions.

The more relevant issue assuming you could only have "one" rifle for dangerous and plains game would be accuracy to 100-200-300+ yds. Doubles aren't great for longer ranges. Or, they get expensive to tune and regulate with and without scopes. So, a bolt tends to work better (far less expensive to do so anyway). I very much doubt anyone shoots elephant in excess of 100 yards and in fact most shots will be a lot closer than that.

In any case, your PH will almost certainly carry a double to back you up. And, he can/will put more lead down range faster than you can with a bolt. You will find very few PH's can afford a double. They are the exception to the norm, restricted to the long established firms or celebrity PH's we see more and more of these days.


-- richard

Doubles have their place, but are not the be all and end all and as you have described, have their limitations.
 
I've never been to Africa but...if and when I get there for a mixed bag hunt including a member of the Big Five I'll likely be toting my 416 Rem Mag. 400 gr bullets at 2400 fps pack lots of punch for <100 yds shots on big stuff and still shoot flat enough for shots to 300 yds on nondangerous game.
Mine is a Rem 700 with open sights and a Kahles 1.5-6x scope in QD Warne rings. Ready to hunt it weighs about 10 lbs and recoil isn't bad at all, about like a 3" 12 gauge load. My only modification might be a Sako extractor for extra reliability.
 
.416 ballistics are hard to beat. Great choice of optics on your rifle too. If your reloads aren't very close to max pressure and you can keep most of the dust off the action you will be fine.
 
A 375 H&H with 260gr and 300gr bullets and if I needed more than that a 458 Lott. You can shoot 458 win mag in a 458 lott if you need to.
 
many African nations have a rule that the bore must be 40 caliber or larger to hunt there. Bolt guns are looked down on by many due to bullet compression in the case that starts with high recoil. The best thing to use is something like an Evans double in .450 #2 Nitro Express, or a .477 Nitro Express. Of course if your independantly wealthy you might op for a Holland & Holland. There is a reason why you see doubles over there; they work everytime!
gary
 
many African nations have a rule that the bore must be 40 caliber or larger to hunt there. That is incorrect though I see where you are coming from. Zimbabwe has energy figures for different groupings of game. This allows calibres such as the 9.3x62/64 to be used on Buffalo. The majority have a min of .375H&H for the Big Five. It varys between countrys. Bolt guns are looked down on by many due to bullet compression in the case that starts with high recoil. This is the first time I have heard this. Do you have a reference please ? Factory or handloaded crimped ammo is fine with any ammo. The best thing to use is something like an Evans double in .450 #2 Nitro Express, or a .477 Nitro Express. Of course if your independantly wealthy you might op for a Holland & Holland. Due to the current wave of interest in doubles have you seen the price of an Evans ? If you want to go cheap start with a new Chapuis double at under 10K. There is a reason why you see doubles over there; they work everytime! More often than not, older rifles that have not been maintained will break a lock spring or other brittle part. They do not work every time. There can be a lot of moving parts in a double which increases the chance of problems. gary

I refer to my previous post. If you have to break the action after walking miles in dusty or inclement weather, and the double is correctly 'on the face' and you get crud in there, you may or may not get a 3rd and 4th shot.
 
Delighted with the discussion that I ve been watching. So here are some thoughts - not gospel. Starting with eland and giraffe 375 or 9.3 minimal. Would thus work great for all plains and can be used with 270 grains for smaller game and more reach. H&H may be the 100yr (1912) classic but highly recommend it to my friends going to Africa and then also great for moose, grizzly. Not quite the long range for caribou and elk frequent conditions. Agree with Long Ranger that Wby 378 is also excellent but get rid of the factory muzzle break, bed the action and put on a side ported muzzle break if ok with your Ph. Some won't allow.
Here's my rule of thumb for buffalo and elephant: minimal velocity 2150fps (checked with chrono)2250 -2300 ideal with sectional density of minimum .325. In addition for buffalo, unless hunting uDagga boys, you need to be careful about wounding a buffalo on the far side - buffalo will often also protect an injured buddy particularly if they are also injured. For elephant, mostly brain shots nowadays, the same rule applies. Forget Bells 7mm. Thus, a 375 H&H with a heavy round is fine for both - solid for elephant, premium soft for buffalo with second round solid. Manners used this Mozambique for elephants . 416 rigby is also great but check the velocity since some loads are not fast enough and occasion al failure of penetration can occur. Capt Solomon culled 4000
elephants with them. The 458 Lott is probably ideal if you can handle the recoil - Winchester is too slow and fails. So idoes often the 470 NE. The bigger ones are more for backup by you Ph but are great - Gibbs 505 if loaded to the rule, jefferies 500 was used by Hunter to take 2000 elephant and never failed as a double. 577 and 600 don't penetrate the brain always but do knock and elephant unconscious for some 20 minutes is a near miss
 
I hope you realize there is quite a bit of difference between long range shooting and hunting Africa. If I may continue my comments. For the ultimate African Forum I'd suggest you start to lurk here: Hunting Africa


Delighted with the discussion that I ve been watching. So here are some thoughts - not gospel. Good thread. Starting with eland and giraffe 375 or 9.3 minimal. Excellent. Softs for Eland and solids for Giraffe. Would thus work great for all plains and can be used with 270 grains for smaller game and more reach One rifle and one load weight. Keep to 300 grains. . H&H may be the 100yr (1912) classic but highly recommend it to my friends going to Africa and then also great for moose, grizzly. Not quite the long range for caribou and elk frequent conditions. The .375 has the same effective hunting trajectory as a .30-06 and 180's. Note: Hunting trajectory, not long range varmint trajectory. Agree with Long Ranger that Wby 378 is also excellent but get rid of the factory muzzle break, bed the action and put on a side ported muzzle break if ok with your Ph. Some won't allow They may allow it but they will hate you and call you rude names in Afrikkanes behind your back.
Here's my rule of thumb for buffalo and elephant: minimal velocity 2150fps (checked with chrono)2250 -2300 ideal with sectional density of minimum .325. The more SD the better but you don't need max velocity or pressure. You need reliability of operation, accuracy and penetration above all else. In addition for buffalo, unless hunting uDagga boys, you need to be careful about wounding a buffalo on the far side - buffalo will often also protect an injured buddy particularly if they are also injured. Correct. Bonded or premium Softs are prefered on Buff. I don't know where the solids for Buff came from, probably American literature. It is better to place a soft correctly rather than follow up with a hail of solids up the arse in the hope they penetrate to the heart and lungs. For elephant, mostly brain shots nowadays, You must be prepared for a heart lung shot as it is a large target. Here a wide dia bullett works best. the same rule applies. Forget Bells 7mm. Thus, a 375 H&H with a heavy round is fine for both - solid for elephant, premium soft for buffalo with second round solid. Manners used this Mozambique for elephants . 416 rigby is also great but check the velocity since some loads are not fast enough WHAT ! probably too fast. and occasion al failure of penetration can occur. Only with 300 or 350 grainers but not with 400, 410 or 450. Capt Solomon culled 4000
elephants with them. The 458 Lott is probably ideal if you can handle the recoil - Winchester is too slow and fails. The older ammo had issues. Modern stuff will work. So idoes often the 470 NE. The bigger ones are more for backup by you Ph but are great - Gibbs 505 if loaded to the rule, jefferies 500 was used by Hunter to take 2000 elephant and never failed as a double. 577 and 600 don't penetrate the brain always but do knock and elephant unconscious for some 20 minutes is a near miss First, if you can handle the recoil of a 577 or 600 and shoot one accurately then you are a Man among Men. They certainly do penetrate to the brain. I have no idea where you got 20 minutes from but there is no way on earth you can put a time on an incident like that.

I have been to Africa five times and hunted there three. It is a disease that you can not get rid of once you hunt there. If/when you go you will love it.

Long range hunting is also available which may suit the majority of posters here. Baboons, Springbok and many Karoo and Kalahari species need to be taken in excess of 2 - 300 yards.
 
Code4 - You're entitled to your opinions. But, you're wrong on a lot of points which I choose not to waste time refuting mostly because I don't like your attitude. Have a nice day.
 
Wow that came out of nowhere. When you get to Africa it will all make sense. You can't prepare for it from a book.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 14 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.
Top