Advice on 1000 yard elk hunting rig?

[cgarb]

http://www.benchrest.com/showthread.php?95849-Why-I-Shoot-the-30-30-in-Benchrest

I wonder if this guy got dared to shoot a belted magnum if he could win a championship in benchrest with one?

 

[Mach 1]

http://www.benchrest.com/showthread.php?95849-Why-I-Shoot-the-30-30-in-Benchrest

I wonder if this guy got dared to shoot a belted magnum if he could win a championship in benchrest with one?

I'd like it if he did. It would be interesting. I have an uncle that shoots 1000 yard benchrest with 300 win mag in a Stiller viper and Bartlien barrel. It's accurate but not overly competitive.

 

[cgarb]

What's beating him at 1000? Probably not other 30cals I bet.

 

[Mach 1]

What's beating him at 1000? Probably not other 30cals I bet.

Yea I beat him with my 300 wsm. And I got beat by a 6.5x284 and a dasher

 

[Deleted member 25294]

I promise if you know how to shoot,
a 180 or 195 7mm bullet will drop an elk in its tracks at 1k.
If you can't shoot then get a 338 something magnum...or a 50 BMG.
Point being practice makes proficient, and proficient makes for ethical kill shots.

 

[Mach 1]

I promise if you know how to shoot,
a 180 or 195 7mm bullet will drop an elk in its tracks at 1k.
If you can't shoot then get a 338 something magnum...or a 50 BMG.
Point being practice makes proficient, and proficient makes for ethical kill shots.

A 180 or 195 grain bullet will drop an elk in its tracks at 1400 yards, but the shot needs to be great and when hunting the perfect shot doesn't come about like shooting paper at the same ranges. If I have ilcomparable guns I personally will take a 338 cal over smaller calibers at 1000 yds on elk.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Things are getting a little silly here. I sure as hell would not be using a 7mm at 1400 and expecting elk to be dropping in their tracks. I also do Benchrest for a full time living. The belt has nothing to do with accuracy. Put a belt on a Br case and it will shoot the same. Its more about matching case volume to the bullet and bore that makes them efficient and efficiency seems to go in hand with accuracy. All the most accurate Br cases are smaller and nothing in that class even has a belt. The belt is on the outside of the case. The case has no idea if its there or not. No effect on internal ballistics.

 

[Capt RB]

The first ELR event under the current rules a 7stw hung with the dump truck sized powder monsters. No other standard receiver sized rounds made the shortest distance. The only other standard sized receiver was the 2011yd shooter with the new tubb gun. Which is not standard in any way. The fact that the stw is belted should end the debate on accuracy and belted case.
When I shot competitively the beltless cases of today didn't exist. My 300 from then would be just as competitive with the current upgrades in barrels bullets and powders. That was a custom throated 300wby. Might not do what a rum will for speed however it would shoot well enough to win as it did then. Has nothing to do with a belt and much less to do with equipment.
However for some it is a great excuse to use

 

[Mach 1]

Things are getting a little silly here. I sure as hell would not be using a 7mm at 1400 and expecting elk to be dropping in their tracks. I also do Benchrest for a full time living. The belt has nothing to do with accuracy. Put a belt on a Br case and it will shoot the same. Its more about matching case volume to the bullet and bore that makes them efficient and efficiency seems to go in hand with accuracy. All the most accurate Br cases are smaller and nothing in that class even has a belt. The belt is on the outside of the case. The case has no idea if its there or not. No effect on internal ballistics.

I respect your opinion. I've heard good things about your work. if there was any advantage to a belt someone would be using it. There are a lot of different things that come into play with modern benchrest cartridges as you know. The short fat cases in and around 6mm are definitely efficient and with efficiently you burn less powder marking for better barrel harmonics and less heat.
A belted case isn't as consistent in expansion when fired and is harder to resize around the belt area consistently. When a belted case wins a modern benchrest or even f class type shoot I'd be happy to eat my words.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

A 180 or 195 grain bullet will drop an elk in its tracks at 1400 yards, but the shot needs to be great and when hunting the perfect shot doesn't come about like shooting paper at the same ranges. If I have ilcomparable guns I personally will take a 338 cal over smaller calibers at 1000 yds on elk.

Yeah a 338 absolutely is best beyond 1k, I was smarting off a little...
What I'm getting at is some people feel that since they're shooting a Canon, then proficiency and shot placement doesn't matter as much.
I got rid of my big 338 because I have never needed to take shots beyond 1k, and a 7mm has more than enough killing power at that range.
Plus I now have a lighter rifle that's much easier and cheaper to shoot, and my confidence in making a precise shot is higher.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I respect your opinion. I've heard good things about your work. if there was any advantage to a belt someone would be using it. There are a lot of different things that come into play with modern benchrest cartridges as you know. The short fat cases in and around 6mm are definitely efficient and with efficiently you burn less powder marking for better barrel harmonics and less heat.
A belted case isn't as consistent in expansion when fired and is harder to resize around the belt area consistently. When a belted case wins a modern benchrest or even f class type shoot I'd be happy to eat my words.

It's not going to happen because there are no belted cartridges and the case capacity that we want. And even if all things were equal and there was such a case we would opt for a beltless cartridge so we can size that portion of the case and not end up with Clickers. But it's not going to shoot any different. In that area of the case we are sizing them about 0005. The brass is just not being worked that much and this inconsistent sizing and growth you're talking about is probably more hypothetical than reality. The belts are gone because the cases they are attached to are too big for the raw accuracy requirements of long-range benchrest. They used to be popular in long-range benchrest when the mentality was big heavy bullets and beating the wind. The idea used to be use the biggest bullet drive it as hard as possible because a thousand yards is a long way. As time went on guys realized raw accuracy wins so cases have gotten smaller and smaller to the point where at today where it's very very hard to beat 105 grain 6 mm bullet going right around 3,000 feet per second. So far as this discussion goes and shooting elk at long distance I wouldn't even consider it with anything less than a 200 grain 30 caliber bullet and I would much prefer a 338

 

[hunter67wa]

Accuracy is the final solution. No matter the caliber. I've seen elk shot poorly with a 375HH and they RUNOFT. I have seen them shot with a 243 and not even want to take a step. Not at LR though but find a rifle that you want to carry and shoot a lot to get proficient with. Range will be up to how much you practice.

 

[scdogman]

Killed 2 elk this year with a 7mm 168 vld at 2980 fps. I personally would not shoot an elk at 1k with a 7mm.

Alex,

Couple of questions. Want range would you limit the 7mm for elk? Also what do you base your decision of speed or energy or just experience? I see some have just experienced quicker kills with the 30 cals and higher. I'm picked up a 300 win and started load work with the 215 Berger.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex,

Couple of questions. Want range would you limit the 7mm for elk? Also what do you base your decision of speed or energy or just experience? I see some have just experienced quicker kills with the 30 cals and higher. I'm picked up a 300 win and started load work with the 215 Berger.

Its hard to put a number on it. But gutting elk shot with 7mm 168 vlds, 30 cal 215s and 338 300 hybrids shows a pretty un deniable difference. From my first hand experience with those bullets on elk, I have confidence the big 30s and 338s will penetrate a shoulder if I accidentally hit bone at any range I want to shoot. The 168 just does not do the damage of the larger bullets. It did a great job, at mid range with a clean lung shot, but the amount of damage and lack of penetration compared to larger bullets makes me feel good to 5-600. And thats in conditions Im comfortable with. But I am also very confident I can place the shot where I want it at that range. The rifle shots solidly 2" and often better at 600. So it depends on the range you feel confident in placing the shot properly. That bullet gets blown around much more that others and it obvious. I do not feel confident I can stay off the shoulder at 1k with that rifle in any conditions, it just gets blown too easily. And you cant see 1 moa of wind at 1k in the field. If the rifle only held moa at 600 Id not be so confident.