? about bad barrel blank

[J E Custom]

JE, if you have 4 rifles that consistently shoot in the zeros or even in the ones, you have either taken the top spot of range guy story tellers I've talked to, or you are doing a great job. If that truly is the case, I'd love to see it and see your techniques for building a rifle.
No offense, just been around too many gun builders that tell stories to bring in business that were full of it. Again, not saying you are,
.

No problem.
I am not boasting or trying to drum up business because I am retired and build only for my self and a few friends. I can also take my time and do my best on every build. I have no reason to say anything and usually regret stating the importance of doing everything as good as I can and as good as my equipment will allow because of the naysayers that don't want to take the time or don't care always have something negative to say.

Those that know me know that I am anal about quality and have little time for smiths that practice "That's close enough" or "It doesn't matter" gunsmithing. Poor workmanship Is what pushed me into doing my own rifles. Every time I had a rifle built, I had to repair or rebuild it and decided to do it own my on. Many of the best barrel makers got in to barrel making because they could not find a barrel that was good enough for their standards or cared enough,so they started their own company and now make some of the best barrels in the world.

I would hate to think there are no others that don't have a rifle that will consistently shoot less than .100 groups. Because Most of those that say It cant be done probably cant shoot well enough to do it even if they had a rifle that was capable of doing it. It takes many things to produce sub 1/4 or 1/8 MOA group So thanks for the complement. I know some that can and do. So if I told you what caliber rifle I shot my best group, you like most would not believe me, so I will leave it at that and keep on trying harder, and never except status quo. By the way it is now 5 rifles.

That's what I get for trying to help. Some day I will learn.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Gater]

No problem.
I am not boasting or trying to drum up business because I am retired and build only for my self and a few friends. I can also take my time and do my best on every build. I have no reason to say anything and usually regret stating the importance of doing everything as good as I can and as good as my equipment will allow because of the naysayers that don't want to take the time or don't care always have something negative to say.

Those that know me know that I am anal about quality and have little time for smiths that practice "That's close enough" or "It doesn't matter" gunsmithing. Poor workmanship Is what pushed me into doing my own rifles. Every time I had a rifle built, I had to repair or rebuild it and decided to do it own my on. Many of the best barrel makers got in to barrel making because they could not find a barrel that was good enough for their standards or cared enough,so they started their own company and now make some of the best barrels in the world.

I would hate to think there are no others that don't have a rifle that will consistently shoot less than .100 groups. Because Most of those that say It cant be done probably cant shoot well enough to do it even if they had a rifle that was capable of doing it. It takes many things to produce sub 1/4 or 1/8 MOA group So thanks for the complement. I know some that can and do. So if I told you what caliber rifle I shot my best group, you like most would not believe me, so I will leave it at that and keep on trying harder, and never except status quo. By the way it is now 5 rifles.

That's what I get for trying to help. Some day I will learn.

J E CUSTOM

Don't let people get to ya if a person doesn't want to do the best they can do all of the time then I wouldn't want them doing or working with me or on my guns or anything for that matter I am a retired pipefitter and you did everything to the best of your ability or find another occupation keep up the good work and isn't nice to work when you want to not when you have to have a good holiday and keep shooting

 

[70oldsracer]

One question that hasn't been ask to the OP yet, the savage action that you used was the rifle a known shooter before you changed the barrel? is there something wrong with the action giving you issues? just a thought??

Secondly I have been looking over your setup multiple times. I think you are trying to mix to many setups into one. I've never seen a setup with 3 indicating contact points which might be part of your problem, leading to bending or torqueing the barrel into place. Pick one setup either through the head stock or centers in a steady rest (in a steady rest the barrel floats and the reamer becomes the center).

I under stand your lathe is too small for each of those setups. So my recommendation is to make a front spider with both indicating contact points in it. Like an action truing jig, then you can have all the adjustments on one side and still stick the barrel out further because it wont fit through the head stock. Run your longer spider/jig in a steady rest for support.

I bought the rifle brand new in .243 with a heavy barrel and never shot it. I took it apart to turn it into a 7mm-08. I greatly appreciate all the replies and ideas, but is it possible that I didn't do anything wrong except for maybe not getting the runout to within a few ten thousandths? Regardless of how I chambered the barrel, it still came out with under .0015" runout and should shoot a lot better than it does. I had a reputable person look at the barrel and he feels the barrel itself is the problem and I trust his opinion. If anyone feels they can check out this barrel and figure out that it's something else, or thinks they can fix it, I'd be more than happy to ship you the barrel to them. I hate the fact that this thread somehow got off topic. I truly respect everyone's opinion and ideas and I am grateful for all the replies.

 

[pacowboy]

Reading all the posts I still think you need to do more testing. I don't think one test load is enough to say the barrel or the chamber job is bad. I wish I lived closer to you to help with reloads to see if we could find something it likes. Try some other factory ammo and get back to us. Looking forward to see more results. Love the caliber.

 

[Mram10us]

No problem.
I am not boasting or trying to drum up business because I am retired and build only for my self and a few friends. I can also take my time and do my best on every build. I have no reason to say anything and usually regret stating the importance of doing everything as good as I can and as good as my equipment will allow because of the naysayers that don't want to take the time or don't care always have something negative to say.

Those that know me know that I am anal about quality and have little time for smiths that practice "That's close enough" or "It doesn't matter" gunsmithing. Poor workmanship Is what pushed me into doing my own rifles. Every time I had a rifle built, I had to repair or rebuild it and decided to do it own my on. Many of the best barrel makers got in to barrel making because they could not find a barrel that was good enough for their standards or cared enough,so they started their own company and now make some of the best barrels in the world.

I would hate to think there are no others that don't have a rifle that will consistently shoot less than .100 groups. Because Most of those that say It cant be done probably cant shoot well enough to do it even if they had a rifle that was capable of doing it. It takes many things to produce sub 1/4 or 1/8 MOA group So thanks for the complement. I know some that can and do. So if I told you what caliber rifle I shot my best group, you like most would not believe me, so I will leave it at that and keep on trying harder, and never except status quo. By the way it is now 5 rifles.

That's what I get for trying to help. Some day I will learn.

J E CUSTOM

Don't turn into a snowflake on me now
Re read what I wrote and realize that I was wanting to know how you do it because that is an anomaly to have a Hunting Rifle shoot in the 0s and 1s CONSISTANTLY.
If I said what you did, I'd have no problem with people asking for targets or proof. I'd be happy to share.

 

[HRM Johnny]

Once you cut on a barrel blank, You are done with many manufactures and in away you can see their point. With that said, Chalk it up to experience and the cost of learning A good skill.

In the beginning, I found poor barrels and simply rejected them before I cut on them because I didn't know how to fix them. I worked out a good way to check them that cured 90% of this problem and started keeping records on the rejected barrel manufactures. It soon became obvious who produced the best quality consistently and who I didn't need to buy from any more.

I also talked to some of my favorite barrel makers and got their opinion on what was a reasonable amount of runout. Much to my surprise, One said "actuality you shouldn't have any, but we try to hold it below .0005 and to a maximum of .0015 after explaining my test procedure, He stated that If I found one of his barrels with more than .001 thousandths runout give him a call and he would send me a new barrel and try not to hold me up by waiting to get the rejected barrel back.

To date I have not rejected one of his barrels so I don't know about the replacement deal we made. I have unfortunately rejected one or more of every other brand I have tried and caught flack and poor customer service from most. some even told me that the industry standard was .007 to .010 runout. (I don't/won't use these barrels).

The point is, test all barrels before you cut on it and decide to except or reject it and live with your decision. In the old days barrel makers straightened there barrels because of bore runout. Now with the latest equipment and testing instruments, the problem has diminished considerably and only their acceptance is in questioned as to how much they will allow and ship to the customer.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear (Quoting a fellow member) so start with qas good a barrel as you can and as you perfect the Smithing part, accuracy will improve. As you progress, try to improve every operation of the work.

Just My opinion and process.

J E CUSTOM

May I please know the barrel maker that makes the barrels with lesson .001 run out.

He stated that If I found one of his barrels with more than .001 thousandths runout give him a call and he would send me a new barrel and try not to hold me up by waiting to get the rejected barrel back.

I understand that you probably wouldn't want to name the barrel makers who did a lousy job; but may we please know the one barrel maker who is doing a great job.
PLEASE.
Johnny

 

[Trangieboy]

Cut 1/2" off the chamber end and rechamber it,this time dialed into under 0.0005" at the throat. Mark the high spot of the bore at the muzzle end and make sure its at 6 or 12 o'clock when the barrel is fitted up correctly in the action.
Then spin it between centers and true the outside if needed.
Recrown and test shoot.
I'd be surprised if it won't shoot.
In my experience, any runout at the throat will cause accuracy issues, with longer bullets effected more than shorter ones.
Cost you nothing but your time to try again.

 

[L.Sherm]

I doudt cutting a 1/2 off is gonna straighten the chamber or throat.
The reamer is gonna want to follow what's already there.

 

[Mram10us]

Don't let people get to ya if a person doesn't want to do the best they can do all of the time then I wouldn't want them doing or working with me or on my guns or anything for that matter I am a retired pipefitter and you did everything to the best of your ability or find another occupation keep up the good work and isn't nice to work when you want to not when you have to have a good holiday and keep shooting

Is that what you got out of my post? Might want to re read. Always one social justice warrior out there ...

 

[J E Custom]

May I please know the barrel maker that makes the barrels with lesson .001 run out.




I understand that you probably wouldn't want to name the barrel makers who did a lousy job; but may we please know the one barrel maker who is doing a great job.
PLEASE.
Johnny

PM me and i will be happy to share the names of my preferred barrel makers. I would post it but there would be so many negative remarks about the one that I use compared to the one that they use its just not worth the trouble. I will also let you know who is on my "Never" List and why.

J E CUSTOM

 

[J E Custom]

Don't let people get to ya if a person doesn't want to do the best they can do all of the time then I wouldn't want them doing or working with me or on my guns or anything for that matter I am a retired pipefitter and you did everything to the best of your ability or find another occupation keep up the good work and isn't nice to work when you want to not when you have to have a good holiday and keep shooting

Thanks
I try not to, but first I consider myself a Craftsman and a very good one, so isn't it logical that it carry's over onto Gunsmithing. I am not offended because I now try to help someone and if they don't believe me, that is OK because I know what I can do and what a can't. Also with over 50 years of experience and a willingness to listen, I learn something new almost every day. My word is all I have and so much on line is false that If i got upset every time i heard something stupid I would go nuts.

The way I learned was with effort and experience and fortunately I had teachers that said 'strive for perfection and don't be disappointed if you don't/can't get it just try to do better the next time".

I am also big into good videos that are unbiased but often they are just the opposite
and really bad and very biased. I also like seeing good targets of great groups and was watching a guy group one of my new favorite cartridges and he was really sticking them in tight. I was very impressed until I found out that they were at 25 Yards instead of 100 yards minimum. I almost posted it to show how bad and misleading some videos get.

J E CUSTOM

 

[nmbarta]

J E CUSTOM,

Your knowledge and experience is very much appreciated, and the fact that you still stick around and share it amazes me.
I see less an less of the few guys with your knowledge and capabilities posting around here, and I can see why. A couple don't even bother anymore and it's a bummer for me as this was the only platform I had to have the opportunity to soak up the information they were so willing to give away. It's good that your not easily offended, but there's got to be a point where it's just not worth it.
I'm never one kiss ***, and am not looking to start now, just pointing out that this place is changing and we're losing some of the most knowledgeable members here.
There's a time and a place for some of it, but I imagine it can get taxing being called out on public forums by people that can't do what you do.
I really miss reading the posts from some of the guys that don't anymore, I'll miss yours as well whenever you decide you've had enough.

 

[HRM Johnny]

How do I PM someone?

 

[Ckgworks]

How do I PM someone?

Touch their name in a post, then touch "start conversation "