? about bad barrel blank

[70oldsracer]

I've watched this guys videos on youtube for years now. As far as I'm concerned, .0012" runout is definitely good enough for a hunting rifle, take a look as this video and then watch part 3 to see his target.

 

[Gater]

I decided to try to thread and chamber my first barrel blank. I've had a Harbor Freight 9x20 lathe (I know, small Chinese lathe) for years and kinda taught myself how to use it. Since the bore is only .750", I'm limited on the diameter of the barrel I can work on. I made myself a spider for the headstock and the rear of the lathe to help dial the barrel in. I bought all the tooling I would need, range rod, reamer, floating reamer holder, go/no go gauges etc. The barrel I bought was a 27" (which I cut down to 24") 7mm and I was threading it for a Savage small shank and chambering it for a 7mm-08. Everything went really well and (at least I thought) I even turned the barrel around, indicated the muzzle and put a recessed target crown on it. I put the rifle back together and went to the range. It sighted in at 25 yards fine, but once I went out to 100 yards, it was all over the place. I thought it might have been the scope, so I bought a new scope, but never tried it again. I just took the barrel off and sent it to a good friend of mine to see If I had somehow screwed up. He checked out the barrel as best he could and told me that my threads were great and that as far as he can tell, the chamber to bore runout was .0012. The problem is with the barrel itself, it has a lot of runout in the middle of the barrel. He said he also put the reamer in the chamber and the range rod in the muzzle end and checked the runout of the OD of the barrel between centers and it was really bad. When I bought this barrel, I was told this was a brand new Wilson barrel and this is the description:
The Wilson Arms barrels are Select Match Grade, button rifled barrels; lapped and air gauged to .0002". It's too late to go back to the company I bought the barrel from, but should I try to contact Wilson directly? Any other ideas what I can do?

I know it's a little late but should have checked all the measurements before you worked on it

 

[Tuffcountry]

Once you cut on a barrel blank, You are done with many manufactures and in away you can see their point. With that said, Chalk it up to experience and the cost of learning A good skill.

In the beginning, I found poor barrels and simply rejected them before I cut on them because I didn't know how to fix them. I worked out a good way to check them that cured 90% of this problem and started keeping records on the rejected barrel manufactures. It soon became obvious who produced the best quality consistently and who I didn't need to buy from any more.

I also talked to some of my favorite barrel makers and got their opinion on what was a reasonable amount of runout. Much to my surprise, One said "actuality you shouldn't have any, but we try to hold it below .0005 and to a maximum of .0015 after explaining my test procedure, He stated that If I found one of his barrels with more than .001 thousandths runout give him a call and he would send me a new barrel and try not to hold me up by waiting to get the rejected barrel back.

To date I have not rejected one of his barrels so I don't know about the replacement deal we made. I have unfortunately rejected one or more of every other brand I have tried and caught flack and poor customer service from most. some even told me that the industry standard was .007 to .010 runout. (I don't/won't use these barrels).

The point is, test all barrels before you cut on it and decide to except or reject it and live with your decision. In the old days barrel makers straightened there barrels because of bore runout. Now with the latest equipment and testing instruments, the problem has diminished considerably and only their acceptance is in questioned as to how much they will allow and ship to the customer.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear (Quoting a fellow member) so start with as good a barrel as you can and as you perfect the Smithing part, accuracy will improve. As you progress, try to improve every operation of the work.

Just My opinion and process.

J E CUSTOM

JE where do you get your barrels from?

 

[L.Sherm]

He said he also put the reamer in the chamber and the range rod in the muzzle end and checked the runout of the OD of the barrel between centers

What does the outside dia. of the barrel have to do with runout of the bore.

 

[J E Custom]

What does the outside dia. of the barrel have to do with runout of the bore.

Not hijacking his post, but the OD of a barrel is often not concentric with the bore. When I check the centers for straightness I also check the OD of the barrel to check I for runout and If it is not true to the bore I re-contour the barrel.

This prevents the barrel from changing POI as it heats up due to the thickness difference in the barrel wall.

As far as runout of the bore you should try to get it within a few 10 thousandths (.0002) if possible for the accuracy of the chamber.

J E CUSTOM

 

[L.Sherm]

My point exactly JE

 

[Mram10us]

Not hijacking his post, but the OD of a barrel is often not concentric with the bore. When I check the centers for straightness I also check the OD of the barrel to check I for runout and If it is not true to the bore I re-contour the barrel.

This prevents the barrel from changing POI as it heats up due to the thickness difference in the barrel wall.

As far as runout of the bore you should try to get it within a few 10 thousandths (.0002) if possible for the accuracy of the chamber.

J E CUSTOM

Why a few ten thousandths? In testing, where have you found the rifle shoots much better with x amount of runout? Honestly curious, because I haven't seen it. I was told GAP rifles looks for .005", yes 5 thousandths runout.
That said, I am like you and shoot for zero, which is impossible but I try.

 

[J E Custom]

Why a few ten thousandths? In testing, where have you found the rifle shoots much better with x amount of runout? Honestly curious, because I haven't seen it. I was told GAP rifles looks for .005", yes 5 thousandths runout.
That said, I am like you and shoot for zero, which is impossible but I try.

The only way you can get to zero runout is to try. I know that there are others like us that tries for zero perfect. and the only measure of the difference is that In my mind, good enough is not except able and nothing beats perfect. When I started doing this type of work I also found out that the closer the tolerances, the inherently more accurate and forgiven the rifle was. This applies to every aspect of building a firearm.

Also by not excepting 'close' and trying to do everything as good as I possibly can, I found accuracy that was un-achievable with the equipment and procedures that I had used in the past. I used to be excited when I built a 1/4 MOA rifle, Now I am challenged to try for 1/10th MOA (Less than .099 thousandths groups. I have just added 1 more hunting rifle to my list of 4 that will consistently stay under .100 thousandths group. The best to date is .034 5 shot.

Can I prove it ? all i can say is that performance has improved with every improvement in tolerance, at least for me.

Whats the saying ? "It cant Hurt"

J E CUSTOM

 

[Mram10us]

JE, if you have 4 rifles that consistently shoot in the zeros or even in the ones, you have either taken the top spot of range guy story tellers I've talked to, or you are doing a great job. If that truly is the case, I'd love to see it and see your techniques for building a rifle.
No offense, just been around too many gun builders that tell stories to bring in business that were full of it. Again, not saying you are,
.

 

[JGRJR]

JE it is always great to read your posts. I do not think it is hijacking but could you walk us through how you check a new barrel when you receive it? I am trying to do some work myself and I think I would have made the same mistake the OP did on not checking his barrel before turning.

 

[Danny1788]

One question that hasn't been ask to the OP yet, the savage action that you used was the rifle a known shooter before you changed the barrel? is there something wrong with the action giving you issues? just a thought??

Secondly I have been looking over your setup multiple times. I think you are trying to mix to many setups into one. I've never seen a setup with 3 indicating contact points which might be part of your problem, leading to bending or torqueing the barrel into place. Pick one setup either through the head stock or centers in a steady rest (in a steady rest the barrel floats and the reamer becomes the center).

I under stand your lathe is too small for each of those setups. So my recommendation is to make a front spider with both indicating contact points in it. Like an action truing jig, then you can have all the adjustments on one side and still stick the barrel out further because it wont fit through the head stock. Run your longer spider/jig in a steady rest for support.

 

[Graham Hall]

You haven't enough lathe for what you are trying to do. You didn't dial-in close enough. The goal is to within tenths. You have too much run-out at .0012". That is not "good enough" for a hunting rifle. What about the load you are using? Many times, a barrel can be finicky. Try a different load. Try a different bullet. Try a different primer. So far, you have only blamed the barrel. There is far, far more to an accurate rifle than the barrel. True, a real 'shooter' won't be built using a defective barrel, but neither will it be a 'shooter' with a poor stock, trigger, scope mounts, ammo the barrel doesn't like or anything else. At 25yds. those bullets should be making just 1 ragged hole. You don't say how you are shooting either. Off of a rest? Using a Lead Sled or a bi-pod? Lots and lots of variables to consider here, not just the barrel.

 

[Graham Hall]

I would suggest checking the crown

 

[MtPockets]

I know it's a little late but should have checked all the measurements before you worked on it

Please excuse my ignorance, but how is a barrel measured to insure it's a good one? I have considered stepping into barrel replacement, but threads like this one really get me second guessing that thought.