7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

[WapitiBob]

That thing kicks like a Mule off the bags.
I do have pressure under the barrel and was also thinking of heat, I don't let the barrel get hot but it does get warm. Thanks for the help guys. It's getting closer for sure.

 

[7stw]

It's looking to me that the shoulder bump is working, you're haveing less horizontal stringing and the vertical stringing may verywell be due to barrel heat. I have a .243 AI that predictably will string up and to the right if fired more than 4 rounds. It's certainly a possibility, especially if you have a sporter taper barrel. I believe that you had to place a pressure pad in the forarm to settle the barrel, is this correct???? You may have a little too much for this load and this may make the stringing more pronounced. (just a thought)

I'm right at 78g of retumbo with my 180g Bergers as well,

View attachment 9435

I need to re shoot this test load due to the fact that it was really windy, and I had a bit of shooters fatigue from being at the range for 6 hrs when I fired this group.

Your grop looks like a good group to me... give it another chance and shoot it off of the bags. I'm also thinking that the sled is forcing you to hold diffrently then how you shoot off of the bags and having an effect on the group.

Dan

Hey Dan, that group looks like it wants to shoot!!! You may, and probably are , knowing you, on to something with that load. And I know what you mean about the shooters fatigue. I shot my sharpshooter yesterday, and my 7 mag, 700 LSS that I just pillar and glass bedded. The grand total was near forty rounds at the end. The Winchester really seems to like RL25, and either a 162 A Max, or a 150 BT. It seems to be about a half minute gun at this point. I have to keep reminding myself that this gun, or my Sako, are not heavy barreled target guns. I still have a little tweaking to do, but it won't be long now. I was at the range about five hours myself . I kept having to wait for the pistol range guys, and all that noise as well, when I was checking my targets, and when they had to check their targets.
On another note, I believe you are right about the lead sled, and how it effects groups. I think that it changes the harmonics in the stock, and may make it string as well.Good luck to you Dan, you are on a roll with that load! Take care.

 

[7stw]

That thing kicks like a Mule off the bags.
I do have pressure under the barrel and was also thinking of heat, I don't let the barrel get hot but it does get warm. Thanks for the help guys. It's getting closer for sure.

Hey Bob, I think that you are closer than what you think. Most of those groups are hovering around MOA. The group on the bottom is showing vertical stinging a little, but with all things said, you really are not in a bad spot overall. You have came a long way with that gun, in a relatively short time. And, I might want to throw in the " R " factor, and this is a big one for me, and that is " recoil". There is no doubt in my mind, that those 180's " kick like a mule", as you said. Believe me when I tell you, that can make a difference. Performance has a price, and to us shooters, it is usually recoil, or noise, and I am not sure which one is worse. I hate both when they are in excess.
Overall, your gun is coming around, and I think that the barrel may be coming around as well. Those targets look a little better that what I was expecting to see, versus what you were saying about how the barrel feels inside. Keep up what you are doing, and don't rush things, as good things take time. Keep us in the loop, and don't give up!

 

[ButterBean]

That thing kicks like a Mule off the bags.
I do have pressure under the barrel and was also thinking of heat, I don't let the barrel get hot but it does get warm. Thanks for the help guys. It's getting closer for sure.

Bob, Im on board with 7stw and Dan....I dont believe in lead sleds,as Dan said and I have tested this it changes the way a gun shoots,Im guessing it calms the harmonics down and as they said it changes your hold entirely,This is just my opinion.......a rifle that will shoot super groups off a sled and wont group off of a bag is of no use(that sled is hard to carry in the woods)and your shooting off the bags looks good and the gun is coming to you now.......looks to me like its a shooter

 

[etisll40]

Opinions on accuracy and barrels. To me, a near perfect 2 shot group determines your guns accuracy. Accuracy of 1/2" groups at 100 yards on 2 shots is most important for hunting past 200 yards. So, with that in mind, I don't get too carried away with long strings.

My observation:

Only bench built rifles can achieve accuracy of 5-10 shot 1/2" groups or better. Once your load development gets to great 2 shot groups, for hunting you are now a bench rest hunter. The next focus becomes distance and wind guaging.

1st shot kills come from great 1st shots. The second is always for security.

If we don't think this way, we can become disappointed with a good firearm for hunting. Typically long stings of accuracy are with firearms with substantial weight attached to them (in the 14 pound+ range.) What do we want to lug to our ambush or sniping spot?

2cents.

However, let's find our 2 shot accuracy node. Especially if we can do it on the 1st cold bore shot and then follow-up. You can't hunt longer distances if you are guessing on the 1st shot whether your gun is warmed up. That is my goal with my hunting rifle, to know that the first time I pull the trigger, the bullet goes exactly where I aim and the second too. After that I hope the animal goes less then 150 yards.

Meat in the freezer. Short walk home.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Crap, I forgot you had pressure on your barrel. I only shoot a float if I can help it. It looks like stringing and a bit of a double tap. Primer and barrel pressure??

 

[7stw]

Opinions on accuracy and barrels. To me, a near perfect 2 shot group determines your guns accuracy. Accuracy of 1/2" groups at 100 yards on 2 shots is most important for hunting past 200 yards. So, with that in mind, I don't get too carried away with long strings.

My observation:

Only bench built rifles can achieve accuracy of 5-10 shot 1/2" groups or better. Once your load development gets to great 2 shot groups, for hunting you are now a bench rest hunter. The next focus becomes distance and wind guaging.

1st shot kills come from great 1st shots. The second is always for security.

If we don't think this way, we can become disappointed with a good firearm for hunting. Typically long stings of accuracy are with firearms with substantial weight attached to them (in the 14 pound+ range.) What do we want to lug to our ambush or sniping spot?

2cents.

However, let's find our 2 shot accuracy node. Especially if we can do it on the 1st cold bore shot and then follow-up. You can't hunt longer distances if you are guessing on



the 1st shot whether your gun is warmed up. That is my goal with my hunting rifle, to
know that the first time I pull the trigger, the bullet goes exactly where I aim and the second too. After that I hope the animal goes less then 150 yards.

Meat in the freezer. Short walk home.

Meat in the freezer, **** right!!!!! Ed, you jus hit it right on the head about the two shot node, and grouping. I can't tell you how many loads that I have grown away, that the first two were touching, and the third away. So you measure the group, end up discarding ot because of the third shot. So I have silently adopted that strategy for a few years now, and it works fof me. Now I know someone is out there " chomping at the bit" and beating his chest, and swearing that " 5 shots is the only way to go" PERIOD. Well, I say hogwash and horsefeathers, to that. Yeah, maybe in a 308' 223' 243' blah, blah blah. I just shot a .463 five shot at a bench rest shoot this morning, and lost to a .457. Not one of us were shooting over a 308 size bullet. Most were shooting 6 mm. Point is , five shot is great for THAT sort of shooting, but not for a fire breathing dragon, with a conservative but accurate barrel. My adaptation to this theorem, is maybe 3 shots in the sendero class, ( heavy barrel)" . Then just shoot 2 shot groups for the remainder. Now once I get a promising load, I will load up a bunch of them, and shoot a SERIES of those two shot groups, and them take the aggregate of the bunch as your average. Smaller number gets the nod! I can hear growling, and grumbling already. Is this what you were referring to Ed? I think it is! Thanks and take care.

 

[7stw]

P/S, the first shot is to kill the deer in the crosshairs. The second on is to kill the one standing beside him!!!!! Ha ha , or if you are my cousin, he shots one deer, and kills two. He says he will teach me how to do that some day!!!!!!! Have a great day Gentleman!!!

 

[Dano1]

Meat in the freezer, **** right!!!!! Ed, you jus hit it right on the head about the two shot node, and grouping. I can't tell you how many loads that I have grown away, that the first two were touching, and the third away. So you measure the group, end up discarding ot because of the third shot. So I have silently adopted that strategy for a few years now, and it works fof me. Now I know someone is out there " chomping at the bit" and beating his chest, and swearing that " 5 shots is the only way to go" PERIOD. Well, I say hogwash and horsefeathers, to that. Yeah, maybe in a 308' 223' 243' blah, blah blah. I just shot a .463 five shot at a bench rest shoot this morning, and lost to a .457. Not one of us were shooting over a 308 size bullet. Most were shooting 6 mm. Point is , five shot is great for THAT sort of shooting, but not for a fire breathing dragon, with a conservative but accurate barrel. My adaptation to this theorem, is maybe 3 shots in the sendero class, ( heavy barrel)" . Then just shoot 2 shot groups for the remainder. Now once I get a promising load, I will load up a bunch of them, and shoot a SERIES of those two shot groups, and them take the aggregate of the bunch as your average. Smaller number gets the nod! I can hear growling, and grumbling already. Is this what you were referring to Ed? I think it is! Thanks and take care.

Hey now,

let's not cast stones..... I shoot 5 shot cuz I'm a crappy shot and need to have five to rule out my fliers..... Three shot work well and two in the sme plce is just fine....

Dan

 

[WapitiBob]

Thanks guys. I seem to have drifted from my goal. This is a Wyoming Antelope and Cow Elk rifle. The 2 shot group Ed talked about is where I need to be.
If I can pull the vertical together I should be set. I can deal with high/low hits, left right turns to bad news quick.
I'm using some NaVCom under the barrel so I can adjust it's location prior to permanent pressure. I think the pressure my be a bit high. The stock is cut for Sendero relief and the 3 business cards I had between the stock and barrel initially certainly didn't provide much pressure.

 

[WapitiBob]

Hopefully I'm not the only one learning here ...

I see brass on my bolt and what appears to be pretty even wear on the lugs. The bolted lifted fine on all shots this last session. Are the filings from the extractor?

 

[Anvil11-87]

I picked up a Remington 700 Sendero, 7 STW last year from another LRH forum member. I got interested in the caliber after shooting my brother-in-law's Ruger #1, STW.

My rifle really likes 140 grain Accubonds, loaded with 76.5 grains of H4832 which are running at 3,183.

My rifle still has the factory barrel. I've been told a 150 grain bullet shoots pretty good in them. Anyone got any good 150 grain loads they like?

 

[ButterBean]

Hopefully I'm not the only one learning here ...

I see brass on my bolt and what appears to be pretty even wear on the lugs. The bolted lifted fine on all shots this last session. Are the filings from the extractor?

Bob, what do the primers look like

 

[WapitiBob]

these are from yesterdays session.