7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

[etisll40]

Kevin,

Using the Nylon Brush with the patch, do you just go all the way through in the direction of the bullet and then remove the nylon brush and gently pull just the rod back through the bore and start again? Assuming you have a coated rod? And then repeat the procedure (how many times?) That's typically how I clean my barrels too.

Just learning, help.

 

[ButterBean]

7stw,

Would David Tubbs "Final Finish" product be an alternative here, to going to a gunsmith?

Your opinion welcomed.

I have used the "tubbs" system with great sucsess but 7STW us right you can screw one up in a second if your not careful

 

[Freebore]

etisll40,

I do not remove the brush. That's the reason for marking the rod. I use a piece of wide masking (so i know the mark is soon to appear) and mark the tape with a sharpie until the tip of the brush just pokes thru the muzzle.
I mark the chamber end after I have started at least 3/4 of the bore. Measure the length of your brush then once it starts into the throat push 3/4 of way and mark your rod as the don't go any further point.
The reason for the don't go out and then back in all the way is that you possible could screw up the crown at the muzzle causing an uneven wear point.
I have done this with a couple of factory rifles and it had made a very noticeable difference in the cleaning process time that showed issues of heavy copper deposits. I do shoot and like the kill factor on those Barnes bullets especially in the 140 7mm out in that 4-600 yard mark on deer.

 

[ButterBean]

Shot my 168 Barnes LRX at .030 .050 .070 off the lands as recommended by Barnes. Blew them all over the paper. Not even worth a picture. Sticking with 180 Bergers and Retumbo.

On another note, what are you guys using for a shoulder bump gage? I saw in Tubbs reloading video the RCBS mic but they apparently don't have that in STW. Are you using the Lee or Hornady caliper setup?

WhapitiBob, Sorry I missed out on your shoulder bump question but I see my Bud 7STW has you on the right track...... he is right on the money at .003

 

[WapitiBob]

Thanks guys.
I used the JB on the first barrel (the blue container, not the pink) and have used it very sparingly on this barrel. Maybe 10 passes a cpl times. I could give it a good lapping if you think it will help.

I was concerned about the neck ID because Tubbs was saying a too tight neck will distort the case when the sizer ball is retracted during the sizing operation, resulting in a non concentric bullet/case condition. It might be better to worry about my seater die not seating concentric rather than the neck sizing operation.


Deer Bob, put the case directly in the candle flame to get soot, not above the flame.... LOL

my bump:

 

[7stw]

As for barrel polishing a JB patch over a nylon brush.....just make sure you mark the rod so you don't go out of the muzzle end or the chamber. This needs to be done AFTER you clean the barrel.
This will help clean the roughness up some what. You need to spend at least ten minutes doing polishing or more and change the patches....cleaning barrel between the patch changes. It will make a difference.

As for shoulder bumping I use the Hornandy gauges. Big mags often shoot any where from .0025 -.005 shoulder bumped back. Gotta find your own sweet spot. I like .003-.0035

Hey Freebore, How are you? And I have .0035 bump on mine as well. I used a small price of plastigage on the shoulder to check my setting, and it worked just fine. I am a diesel engine builder, and we have that stuff for checking unknown clearances. I just cut a small section and stick it to the shoulder with a dab of case lube. Compare it to the chart, and came up with .0035, dead nuts.
I like to use a tight fitting patch with the JB. It let's you feel the tight spots that you may have to work on a bit more. Take care my Friend!

 

[7stw]

WhapitiBob, Sorry I missed out on your shoulder bump question but I see my Bud 7STW has you on the right track...... he is right on the money at .003

Thanks guys.
I used the JB on the first barrel (the blue container, not the pink) and have used it very sparingly on this barrel. Maybe 10 passes a cpl times. I could give it a good lapping if you think it will help.

I was concerned about the neck ID because Tubbs was saying a too tight neck will distort the case when the sizer ball is retracted during the sizing operation, resulting in a non concentric bullet/case condition. It might be better to worry about my seater die not seating concentric rather than the neck sizing operation.


Deer Bob, put the case directly in the candle flame to get soot, not above the flame.... LOL

my bump:

Wapiti bob, that looks somewhat OK, but I prefer a cigarette lighter, a regular wick type lighter gives a nice completely sooted shoulder. That way, as soon as you make contact, it changes appearance. But you are on the right track now. Hope everything works out.

 

[7stw]

7stw,

Would David Tubbs "Final Finish" product be an alternative here, to going to a gunsmith?

Your opinion welcomed.

Ed, I have not personally used it, don't know of anyone that has, but there's no substitute for elbow grease, and polishing compound. For a " course barrel, " JB bore cleaner is the finisher, but a actual lapping compound, and PLENTY of oil, is the first and best step. You have to feel and find those rough spots, and work those first. Then when everything feels the same, you can finish with JB, or Flitz polish. I had a barrel years ago that was rougher than a washboard, due to the previous owners neglect. I had nothing to loose, so I experimented with it, and when I got done, it would kill flies! JMHO.lightbulb Take care Ed!!



BOB.

 

[Dano1]

Ed,

I too, have had to hand lap a barrel I tried JB bore paste and it works very well on extremely fouled barrels, but 7 STW is correct that an actual lapping compound is needed to truly smooth out a barrel.

I used Wheeler Engineering Lapping compound 600grit to smooth a factory .30-06 Barrel and I finished with jb bore paste to polish it.

I actually used the lapping compound with the JB to hold the lapping compound to the patch, I then used a Tipton brass Jag and used a back and forth motion the full length of the bbl. To keep the jag from exiting the bbl, I placed the rifle in my cradle and using a sheet of paper to protect the wall from I put the muzzle up against the paper I taped to the wall.

I first ran 2 oiled patches to saturate the bore then I ran a tight patch of JBs + the compound ten times through the bore, then 1 dry patch, two oiled patches and repeat..... I checked after 2 cycles and I was close. 1 more cycle and I was done, I checked by running 1 oiled patch and 2 dry patches slowly feeling for any drag. I then ran 2 cycles of JB bore paste by itself and then cleaned the bore with solvent and Kroil. All done. Now barrel cleans easily an went from 1.25" groups to .85" groups.

It's really easy to ruin a barrel, so be careful and use a bore guide as well as keeping the jag from exiting the barrel as stated earlier. Thankfully I haven't had to lap another barrel. It's a pain, but sometimes necessary.

Dan

 

[Freebore]

Ed,

I too, have had to hand lap a barrel I tried JB bore paste and it works very well on extremely fouled barrels, but 7 STW is correct that an actual lapping compound is needed to truly smooth out a barrel.
.
.
.
It's really easy to ruin a barrel, so be careful and use a bore guide as well as keeping the jag from exiting the barrel as stated earlier. Thankfully I haven't had to lap another barrel. It's a pain, but sometimes necessary.

Dan

Hey 7STW

I have to agree with you gentlemen that the actual lapping compound it the way to go and it is what I use when I know a barrel really needs lapped and it has been scoped to verify. I didn't want to go there with a 'new' guy 'cause as mentioned you can screw up a barrel in few strokes.
600 to 800 to 1000 to JB w/ Kroil. Most factory's will usually...usually come in within 150 rounds, more fun than lapping. Just keep that barrel clean every 15 rounds. I've used Tubb's system in a 7Mag before and the jury is still out for me.

I'm retired '08 37yrs. Nuclear Power from Exelon still getting calls to come back help part time....great for paying for the hunts. All my life in Maint. you should see the diesel engines we work on. Steamfitter to middle Management. Reactor pipe joints within thousands for fit-up.
I really prefer range/bench time.

 

[WapitiBob]

I seem to be getting some vertical stringing with the Bergers now. The only difference between the good group in the single spot and the 8 shot stringy group is the shoulder bump. Will that move the group characteristics that much?
I'm also thinking I need to lower the powder charge to low 77's and work up. Things seem to open up after 78.0
Wonder if I should back off the lands just a twitch too?

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

The stringy group looks like borderline ignition or barrel heating to me. I get that sometimes if the primer's wrong for the combo. Usually I scrap the powder or primer and see if it helps.

 

[etisll40]

Vertical Stringing. This might help a little.

CURES for VERTICAL STRINGING

 

[Dano1]

I seem to be getting some vertical stringing with the Bergers now. The only difference between the good group in the single spot and the 8 shot stringy group is the shoulder bump. Will that move the group characteristics that much?
I'm also thinking I need to lower the powder charge to low 77's and work up. Things seem to open up after 78.0
Wonder if I should back off the lands just a twitch too?

It's looking to me that the shoulder bump is working, you're haveing less horizontal stringing and the vertical stringing may verywell be due to barrel heat. I have a .243 AI that predictably will string up and to the right if fired more than 4 rounds. It's certainly a possibility, especially if you have a sporter taper barrel. I believe that you had to place a pressure pad in the forarm to settle the barrel, is this correct???? You may have a little too much for this load and this may make the stringing more pronounced. (just a thought)

I'm right at 78g of retumbo with my 180g Bergers as well,



I need to re shoot this test load due to the fact that it was really windy, and I had a bit of shooters fatigue from being at the range for 6 hrs when I fired this group.

Your grop looks like a good group to me... give it another chance and shoot it off of the bags. I'm also thinking that the sled is forcing you to hold diffrently then how you shoot off of the bags and having an effect on the group.

Dan