7mm Sherman Short Mag vs 300 Win mag

Ya gotta quit gut shootin'em! Don't smell like no shot up barber shop!!:D Just kidding........Rich

I know Rich. But remember I only shot two. One at 1118 and one just under the chin at 350. Both with the 338 Terminator. The one at 350 was bedded in sage. She went down so fast I missed it during recoil. When the rest of the herd jumped up I thought I missed. Then came the smashing water melon sound. :D

It'll be interesting to see what this season brings for the 195 Berger, I know of a bunch of 28 Noslers that were built this year and their all shooting the 195 up in the 3100+ range. Matching the function of the 215 I think is a pretty tall order, it's a perfect bullet and for some reason it functions very well across a broad range of velocities from a 308 to a 300 Win.
It'll be very cool to see what the little 30 SS will do with it!!

Well, all I can add is, they will have plenty of expansion under 400 with a 195 @ 3100. :D

We need to figure this 215 success out and repeat it in other calibers. I have put that bug in Bergers ear many times.

Jeff
 
.284 (7mm) up to .308 is only a 0.024" increase in bullet diameter. Doesn't seem like much, yet shooting very similarly constructed bullets, Broz observed such a pronounced difference that the use of the 7mm was discontinued.

.308 up to .338 is another .030" increase in diameter.

The .338 is where I've observed a pretty notable difference in stopping power compared to the 7mms. I don't shoot 50-70 animals in a short period of time, so my personal experiences and the lessons learned came over decades rather than a single hunting season.

Not to say the 7mms won't kill an elk, moose, brown bear, or other large game animal. The difference is how emphatically they're killed. I grew up archery hunting and truthfully, I enjoy following up the trails of a mortally hit deer or other non-predatory large game animal. It was the normal consequence of archery hunting and hitting an animal with a broadhead. As much a part of the hunt as any other aspect, and typically the 2nd most exciting portion of my hunting experience.

I don't - on the other hand - particularly enjoy following up bears in the brush and finding them still alive in their death-beds. So although I currently own four rifles with .284" bores, and have another .284 Broughton blank on hand, these aren't the rifles I normally take when bear hunting. Sometimes I'll grab one for black bear.

Like most riflemen I know, I much prefer shooting a light kicking rifle compared to heavier recoiling rifles. I used to own a .222 Remington back in the early 70s. Accurate and fun to shoot. I'd like to use smaller caliber, lighter kicking rifles on large game for their reduced recoil. The biggest reason I don't is because of the ever-present bears wherever I hunt. I prefer the improved knockdown/disabling effects I've experienced from the larger caliber, heavier recoiling rifles to the extent I'll endure the additional recoil.
 
Another thing is we'll see a number of animals hit with the 270 Cal 170gr EOL bullet this next year and it will be interesting to see how it functions. I've shot a number of elk and we taken a number of deer with the Berger 140 in the 6.5 and I have absolutely nothing but love for it. I haven't decided what I'm shooting this year yet but I have a 270 and 7mm barrel coming from Rock Creek this week so gotta make my mind up :D
 
Another thing is we'll see a number of animals hit with the 270 Cal 170gr EOL bullet this next year and it will be interesting to see how it functions. I've shot a number of elk and we taken a number of deer with the Berger 140 in the 6.5 and I have absolutely nothing but love for it. I haven't decided what I'm shooting this year yet but I have a 270 and 7mm barrel coming from Rock Creek this week so gotta make my mind up :D

Well, I guess the way I see it is good shot placement is much more critical then size. And a heavier bullet is much better than a light fast bullet for game. I use to hunt deer with a 223 every year, racking up as many as 20+ deer a year on unlimited doe tags. They changed the laws since then to 2 deer a county plus 3 landowner tags, but it was enough to learn on.

I would love to take this 7mm SS elk hunting, but funds do not exist to do so at the moment. I am for sure that it will be an absolute hammer on deer and I'm excited to try it out this coming season. I usually let the ones past 300 yards go because I want an ethical kill, but I'm willing to stretch a little more with this cartridge.
 
I just want to say to be clear.

I am in no way saying that the .284 cal with a 180 or 195 do not kill elk. They do and we only lost one last season from a 7mm. It was shot with a Nosler LRAB , hit well but we found it a coupe weeks later by the aid of birds. I traveled about 1/2 mile. All the ones with the 7mm Bergers never left the immediate area, but too many required a second shot. Not so with the 30 cal and that 30 cal is at 36 and 0 for one shot kills.

And YES!! Shot placement is KING with anything you shoot. But to ignore the fact that in the world of long range, the possibility of being off up to 1 moa is a reality would be careless. Thus I wanted to share these result because the "Cover Your Butt" factor was so evident with the step up to the 30 with a 215 hybrid. test assured we do everything we can to get closer and place shots well. But with this many kills to ignore what we see with not so well placed shots would not be a good representation of real world hunting. I think we only lost 3 elk all season. All 3 were found later, and one we tracked out at first light the next morning and saved 90% of the meat. I feel these odds are respectable and as good as any method of take could represent.

On the difference between the .284 / 195 and the .308 / 215. Yes only .024" dia difference. But .100" difference in depth of Hollow point to lead. Can this and the 20 grains of lead make up the obvious difference? or has it more to do with sectional density?

Thanks
Jeff
 
On the difference between the .284 / 195 and the .308 / 215. Yes only .024" dia difference. But .100" difference in depth of Hollow point to lead. Can this and the 20 grains of lead make up the obvious difference? or has it more to do with sectional density?

Thanks
Jeff

If you're involved with another 50-70 elk kills next year, you'll be in a great position to test the various theories. Provided the hollow jacket tip blows off exposing the lead core, the larger the diameter of the lead core facial surface, the more aggressive the bullet expansion should be. At least that's what I'd expect...
 
And after shot placement, for better or for worse, what's left? Bullet selection and terminal performance.

Definitely. Im just saying that shot placement is more critical than anything else. You could kill a bull with a 22lr if you have good enough shot placement :D.

I would say after shot placement, that ethical issues kick in much more than what your using. If a 17 hornet could kill faster than a big 50, then most would use the 17 hornet. Completely not going to happen, but it does make the point.

My issue is I've never hunted much else except whitetail and they are very easy to take down. That's why I like to read posts like Jeff did to learn and understand how important size and selection of bullets really start to matter on bigger game. I'm over here in the middle of no where Missouri, so I don't have these opportunities to learn as much.
 
If you're involved with another 50-70 elk kills next year, you'll be in a great position to test the various theories. Provided the hollow jacket tip blows off exposing the lead core, the larger the diameter of the lead core facial surface, the more aggressive the bullet expansion should be. At least that's what I'd expect...

With the new 2016 regulations from MT FWP for our area. I think I will quietly slip back to my usual 20 or so elk a year. MT FWP didn't see the value of allowing 50 to 60 public hunters in, free of any charge, that resulted in well over 100% success rate. They have a better plan, so I wish them luck. No good deed goes unpunished. :D

Jeff
 
Actually, the 195 has a higher sectional density than the 215. There is one other variable that will make a difference (good or bad)? The 215's are a target bullet while the 195's are hunting (Bergers designaton). This SHOULD give the 215 an edge at closer range and the 195's at longer range with the thinner jacket. This is all else equal and does not take into account frontal area and cavity depth.................Rich
 
Actually, the 195 has a higher sectional density than the 215. There is one other variable that will make a difference (good or bad)? The 215's are a target bullet while the 195's are hunting (Bergers designaton). This SHOULD give the 215 an edge at closer range and the 195's at longer range with the thinner jacket. This is all else equal and does not take into account frontal area and cavity depth.................Rich

Ah geez. Put some mercury fulminate in the hollow point and get explosive expansion!

On second thought, while the expansion will be great, the feds aren't gonna like you at all for that so I would advise against it :D
 
Actually, the 195 has a higher sectional density than the 215. There is one other variable that will make a difference (good or bad)? The 215's are a target bullet while the 195's are hunting (Bergers designaton). This SHOULD give the 215 an edge at closer range and the 195's at longer range with the thinner jacket. This is all else equal and does not take into account frontal area and cavity depth.................Rich

I realize this. Just listed it because SD is a definite difference. As for the jacket thickness. :rolleyes: never seen a difference at any distance. ???? Who said that?????

Jeff
 
I realize this. Just listed it because SD is a definite difference. As for the jacket thickness. :rolleyes: never seen a difference at any distance. ???? Who said that?????

Jeff

Do you mean that there is no difference in the jacket thickness, or the difference has no bearing on performance?..............Rich
 
What is the round count everyone is getting before shooting out the barrel? I'm interested in this for PRS Competition. I love the idea.

How successful are you at braking out the recoil? I want to spot my impacts through the scope.
 
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