7MM Rem Mag vs 6.5 CM at 600 yards on cow elk
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codyadams
Well-Known Member
My .260 ai, which is not a huge jump from a 6.5 cm, has taken 5 elk from the closest at 703, to the farthest at 940, using a 140 Berger vld-h @3040, 147 eld-m@3040, and a 156 EOL @2930.
Elk 1 was a 6x6 bull, center shoulder hit at 703 with a 140 Berger vld-h. Went in between scapula and humorous, exited same place, elk lunged forward and spun around at impact, stood wobbly for 8 seconds, and tipped over by 10 second from impact. Have it on youtube.
Elk 2 was at 816, 5x6 bull, 147 eld-m. First shot was back, double lung and liver. Elk ran 15 yards and stopped, I reloaded, held off, and shanked my second shot, pulled low, put the bullet through some skin on the leg. Reloaded, fired again. Center punched the shoulder. From first impact until elk was down was 34 seconds, time from second hit until elk was down was 15 seconds. Have it on youtube.
Elk 3 was at 703 yards, my wife's, a large cow, 147 eld-m. Elk was slightly quartered to us. Impact was through the elbow, at the angle it should have taken out both lungs, and exited about 6" behind the off side shoulder. Bullet deflected, only hit a portion of the near side lung, went back into the guts, missed the liver. Cow ran about a mile, about 600 yards as the crow flies. Found her dead, bullet was under the hide in the rear off side quarter. Have video of the shot on YouTube and photos of entry, showing the angle and impact, making it obvious that the bullet deflected significantly. Stopped using the 147 after this.
Elk 4 was at 880, large cow, 156 EOL. Shot was high shoulder, double lung behind the shoulder, under the spine. Cow dropped like she was struck by lightning. Have it on video.
Elk 5 was at 940, medium cow, 156 EOL. Shot was slightly quartering to, took out the top of the heart. Cow ran 10 yards and dumped. Have it on video.
It can absolutely be done effectively and efficiently, however bullet choice, impact location, and other factors of the shot must be taken into account more and more as you go to a smaller projectile. That is not an excuse to get complacent with a .338, but it's just as ridiculous to say a 6.5 is not adequate for elk. Think of your hunting style, ranges you shoot, and much more importantly, your abilities, and make the proper choice in cartridge selection, bullet selection, and distance you are proficient at.
My guess on your lost elk is either poor shot placement, or a bullet failure as I saw with the 147 eld-m, or both. It's highly unlikely you made a good shot through the shoulder and both lungs and the elk just ran off. A low hit, i.e. heart level, but back a few inches behind the heart, makes it very possible for an elk to run a long ways, leave a significant blood trail in snow, and not die for a long time, if at all. This is my guess as to what happened. However, as no elk was recovered, it is just that, a guess, and means about as much as the dirt on the bottom of your shoe.
As for me personally, after killing many elk from bad breath distance out to 1036 yards, I look at a magnum 7mm with a heavy c&c or medium to heavy mono as my minimum for an elk rifle for my style of hunting, with preference going to .30 cal and up. For the next gent, a .243 with an appropriate bullet could be perfectly adequate for their hunting method.
Elk 1 was a 6x6 bull, center shoulder hit at 703 with a 140 Berger vld-h. Went in between scapula and humorous, exited same place, elk lunged forward and spun around at impact, stood wobbly for 8 seconds, and tipped over by 10 second from impact. Have it on youtube.
Elk 2 was at 816, 5x6 bull, 147 eld-m. First shot was back, double lung and liver. Elk ran 15 yards and stopped, I reloaded, held off, and shanked my second shot, pulled low, put the bullet through some skin on the leg. Reloaded, fired again. Center punched the shoulder. From first impact until elk was down was 34 seconds, time from second hit until elk was down was 15 seconds. Have it on youtube.
Elk 3 was at 703 yards, my wife's, a large cow, 147 eld-m. Elk was slightly quartered to us. Impact was through the elbow, at the angle it should have taken out both lungs, and exited about 6" behind the off side shoulder. Bullet deflected, only hit a portion of the near side lung, went back into the guts, missed the liver. Cow ran about a mile, about 600 yards as the crow flies. Found her dead, bullet was under the hide in the rear off side quarter. Have video of the shot on YouTube and photos of entry, showing the angle and impact, making it obvious that the bullet deflected significantly. Stopped using the 147 after this.
Elk 4 was at 880, large cow, 156 EOL. Shot was high shoulder, double lung behind the shoulder, under the spine. Cow dropped like she was struck by lightning. Have it on video.
Elk 5 was at 940, medium cow, 156 EOL. Shot was slightly quartering to, took out the top of the heart. Cow ran 10 yards and dumped. Have it on video.
It can absolutely be done effectively and efficiently, however bullet choice, impact location, and other factors of the shot must be taken into account more and more as you go to a smaller projectile. That is not an excuse to get complacent with a .338, but it's just as ridiculous to say a 6.5 is not adequate for elk. Think of your hunting style, ranges you shoot, and much more importantly, your abilities, and make the proper choice in cartridge selection, bullet selection, and distance you are proficient at.
My guess on your lost elk is either poor shot placement, or a bullet failure as I saw with the 147 eld-m, or both. It's highly unlikely you made a good shot through the shoulder and both lungs and the elk just ran off. A low hit, i.e. heart level, but back a few inches behind the heart, makes it very possible for an elk to run a long ways, leave a significant blood trail in snow, and not die for a long time, if at all. This is my guess as to what happened. However, as no elk was recovered, it is just that, a guess, and means about as much as the dirt on the bottom of your shoe.
As for me personally, after killing many elk from bad breath distance out to 1036 yards, I look at a magnum 7mm with a heavy c&c or medium to heavy mono as my minimum for an elk rifle for my style of hunting, with preference going to .30 cal and up. For the next gent, a .243 with an appropriate bullet could be perfectly adequate for their hunting method.
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The Oregonian
Well-Known Member
I assume he is assuming someone aimed for the spine…but aiming for the 15" kill zone to me makes a lot more sense than trying to aim for the smaller spinal area, particularly at distance.
And right there you have the most valuable considerations Being ethical should entail knowing all of your limitations along with that of your equipment And sticking to it
Everyone's made a bad decision Ethics also dictates we learn and evolve from it
My take from this is, it was the guides rifle. The Elk guide didn't have any worries that the 6.5 CM had what it takes to drop the Elk at almost 800 yards or the guide would not have let the young lady use the Rifle. Just saying. By the way congrats to your Daughter.
COBrad
Well-Known Member
Gotta call BS on this. With the right bullet the 7 mag is an effective thousand yard elk rifle. I had a long range 7 mag built specifically to shoot Berger 180 HVLD's. I was getting 2990 FPS and used it it take an elk at 1098 yards. Broadside shot bullet completely penetrated the animal coming to rest against the hide on the far side. Bullet mushroomed nicely.
The Oregonian
Well-Known Member
Off topic but I'm sure glad you have that comma where you have it.
Troutslayer2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2010
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Recommending questionable cartridges for elk is this forum's equivalent of driving a lifted truck with the rubber testicles hanging off the trailer hitch.
Bahahahahaha Well done
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Punctuation is critical lol
meatyrem
Well-Known Member
I agree with what you said
They have marketed the CM with a false sense of power. A lot of people think it's a one rifle do all knock elk end over end from 1k and better not have anything standing behind it or it's dead too.
I agree with others here that the creed does not need to be used on elk. Will it kill and elk yes it will so will a 22 center fire. If it is going to be used I'd say the distance needs to be seriously limited. But i think here is the problem. With articles by F&S wildly promoting the CM
Best Rifle Cartridges for Elk Hunting of 2024
Shooting an elk cleanly takes a good cartridge. Check out our list of the best rifle cartridges for elk hunting from 6.5 Creedmoor to 300 Winchester.
www.fieldandstream.com
meatyrem
Well-Known Member
True.
I think too many creed users are trying to push it way past its limitations
Well if it kills at 400 then it should at 500. It kills at 500 it should kill at 600 and so on and so on.
W
Wyo37
Guest
And if it kills at 600? Was it a magic trick?
