6.5creedmoor vs 7mm08 for whitetails under 350 yards

[WildRose]

Don't get me wrong as I'm as biased in my choices as many others. I'm partial to Rem 700s since I'm a lefty and back in the mid-late 70s they were my best and most affordable option. Since that was a .30-06, I'm partial to that case and its derivatives.

Hey it's fine as long as you accept and admit the bias and where it comes from. It's the people who don't/won't that end up leading a lot of people astray.

It's like the ultra and super magnum craze hit a whole lot of people wasted a ton of money buying and building boomers only to find out after a handful of shots they simply could not stand the recoil. They had been convinced mostly by a handful of internet experts that it really wouldn't bother them and would make them long range shooters right out of the box.

I'd rather leave the bias out of it, tell people straight up what, why, and how, warn them when needed about things like recoil and refer them to recoil calculators and Len's spread sheets and encourage them to find someone with a similar rig to that they are considering and see if they'll let the prospective buyer/builder take a few shots to see how they like it.

Whether it's about comfort, style, recoil, or the "perfect caliber for XYZ" I just feel like we owe it to others to be as straight as possible leaving the bias out to the greatest extent possible or by being honest about it and telling them where it comes from and why.

 

[CJS-6.5]

Well, that's just not true. The 6.5 will ballistically out peform the 7mm in every respect other than energy.

Shots do not have to be perfect to kill either. The vital zone on a deer is about 10x24" and it's much larger on Elk and Moose measuring spine to heart and diaphragm to the bend of the neck.

You contradict yourself here. The 6.5 will ballistically out perform the 7mm but it doesn't matter because shots don't have to be perfect. Imperfect shots are unacceptable but in the case of such it is energy that helps. Which as you said the 7mm has more of.

This is just me trying to annoy you into posting again. If you do post again I win...

 

[WildRose]

You contradict yourself here. The 6.5 will ballistically out perform the 7mm but it doesn't matter because shots don't have to be perfect. Imperfect shots are unacceptable but in the case of such it is energy that helps. Which as you said the 7mm has more of.

This is just me trying to annoy you into posting again. If you do post again I win...

There is no contradiction. In the real world as opposed to the internet few shots are "perfect" as in hitting the exact aimpoint but the kill zone on any animal is far larger than the actual aimpoint.

As long as there's adequate energy to reach the target's vitals and expand the bullet, put it in that zone and the animal dies.

Bigger bullets and more energy only matter when a shot is marginal and you need that extra energy for additional hydrostatic shock to bring them down.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I got that but it won't work, as the parent case for the CM is the .30TC. The TC is both shorter and fatter than the .308.

Long after the .243 brass is dead and gone though you'll still be able to find .308 brass and from it you can make either .243 or .260 ammo.

Wild rose I think you should go to YouTube. There are several videos of people making 6.5creedmoor brass from 243. It would seem the dies have no problems changing a 243 shoulder into the 6.5creedmoor, so while yes...the 6.5cm is based off of 30tc, it would seem it is very easy to make it out of 243 brass as well. After resizing the brass there is a ton of neck that needs to be trimmed is the only issue I see and possibly the fact that you are working the brass so hard it won't last as long?

 

[WildRose]

Wild rose I think you should go to YouTube. There are several videos of people making 6.5creedmoor brass from 243. It would seem the dies have no problems changing a 243 shoulder into the 6.5creedmoor, so while yes...the 6.5cm is based off of 30tc, it would seem it is very easy to make it out of 243 brass as well. After resizing the brass there is a ton of neck that needs to be trimmed is the only issue I see and possibly the fact that you are working the brass so hard it won't last as long?

I'm not sure just how they are doing it with the difference in body diameter but I'll take your word for it.

 

[antelopedundee]

I'm not sure just how they are doing it with the difference in body diameter but I'll take your word for it.

Is fire-forming involved?

 

[Bigeclipse]

Is fire-forming involved?

Yes kind of. If you watch the videos, they form the brass by using a 6.5cm full length die. They load up rounds and it sounds like those rounds shoot just fine as-is BUT the brass is not 100% 6.5 cm specs until you fire it once so yes in a way you must fire form them if you want the best accuracy/consistency. Again, these are just based off the videos I've watched and not first hand experience

 

[MudRunner2005]

Is fire-forming involved?

Fire-forming seems intense, but it's very simple once you get the hang of it. There's lots of posts all over this forum talking about fire-forming with clear and concise step-by-step "how-to" instructions.

 

[antelopedundee]

Fire-forming seems intense, but it's very simple once you get the hang of it. There's lots of posts all over this forum talking about fire-forming with clear and concise step-by-step "how-to" instructions.

Have not done it [6.5-06 AI from 6.5-06] in a long time, but IIRC the keys are to use stout loads and jam the bullets. If they shoot good enough to hunt with then that's a plus. Stout loads to fully form the new case and jam the bullet to prevent the loaded round from moving in the chamber.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Have not done it [6.5-06 AI from 6.5-06] in a long time, but IIRC the keys are to use stout loads and jam the bullets. If they shoot good enough to hunt with then that's a plus. Stout loads to fully form the new case and jam the bullet to prevent the loaded round from moving in the chamber.

NO! Do NOT use stout loads with jammed bullets, that's how you pressure spikes, and how you blow up your rifle. Use starting book loads, further reduced by about 5%, and THEN jam the bullet. Jamming is correct, but do not use more than a starting book load for the parent cartridge. As long as the bullet was jammed and the case head was seated properly agains the bolt face, the shoulder/neck junction and case walls will be mostly formed to give you proper headspace. The 2nd firing when you do load workup and development is when your shoulder angles will fully define to the chamber walls.

 

[karlkostman]

I just bought my first 6.5 in a RPR and its a Creedmore, I looked at the 6.5x284 and ammo selection was a fraction of the creed and double the price. I have to buy factory ammo to build up a brass supply for loading.

 

[antelopedundee]

I guess it was mostly a general reply that anyone is free to answer. At this point one could simply buy some 6.5 CM brass and save it for that rainy day that may never come. Unfortunately the 6.5-06 brass is not available with its own headstamp and I suppose that it's possible one of the major brass makers would do it if one wanted to buy enough pieces. The easiest way to make 6.5-06 or the AI version is to seat a 6.5mm bullet in a new or fired .25-06 case. Since I have both .25-06 and 6.5-06 chambered rifles, I usually make my 6.5 ammo from .270 cases. I'll take one of each hunting next fall and load my 6.5-06 ammo in nickel plated cases just to avoid any possible mix-up!

I take that back. 6.5-06 headstamp brass is available. Anyone have any info/experience with the Quality Cartridge brand of brass? Looks pricey, but I may buy some just to have it. Still, using nickel plated cases for 6.5-06 hunting ammo seems like a way better way to avoid cartridge mix-up when you have 2 nearly identical looking cartridges like a .25-06 and a 6.5-06.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/24801

 

[Orange Dust]

Well, that's just not true. The 6.5 will ballistically out peform the 7mm in every respect other than energy.

Shots do not have to be perfect to kill either. The vital zone on a deer is about 10x24" and it's much larger on Elk and Moose measuring spine to heart and diaphragm to the bend of the neck.

I'm going to stick by what I said on this one. Yes, I am biased. I've seen too many deer killed with the SST in a 7-08 to be otherwise. Also a few with a .260 and a .264 I used to own. Never killed one with a Creedmore which is less than either of the ones I have used. The bullet has more energy and frontal area, bigger wound channel. This is a fact and it exists. I also said the difference would seldom be noticed, but it does exist. This load also leaves excellent blood trails. This is a blessing in thick cover. Somehow, Southern Whitetails don't seem to die on the spot everytime like TV

 

[antelopedundee]

The state of arousal has a lot to do with how quickly an animal drops after being hit. A calm critter that doesn't know that you're about to dump one into his boiler room will usually drop like a rock. A CNS hit usually drops them in their tracks regardless. At least that's my experience.