6.5cm discovery

[skipglo]

I wasn't saying to use the 50 fps per grain as an absolute value, and I understand it's not completely linear through the spectrum of the entire charge, but you did get me curious. So in two examples of ammunition manufacturing, the 5 fps per grain.10 grain, or 50 fps per grain isn't far off.

In the Hornady manual, the use of H4350 in 6.5 CM (which is what the OP conversation was about), the charge of 41.1 for 2600 MV and the charge of 42.8 for 2700 MV. That's about 58.8 fps per grain.

In the Nosler manual, the charge of 37.0 for 2485 MV and the charge of 41.0 for 2699. That's about 53.5 fps per grain.

Again, I never said this should be used in load calculation or load development. It was in reference to show an approximation for how much velocity was being possibly left on the bench by using a lower charge.

I guess if 2050 fps is close enough for you to 2699....who am I to disagree ?

 

[bomberodevil]

I guess if 2050 fps is close enough for you to 2699....who am I to disagree ?

I guess your beef is with the engineers of Hornady and Nosler, but you be you.

 

[skipglo]

I guess you're beef is with the engineers of Hornady and Nosler, but you be you.

I'm sure that a single load somewhere will be 50fps/gr. But a RULE OF THUMB...this isn't... perhaps the example of my 50 BMG could be discussed with the engineers at Hornady...or my .460 Weatherby, .338 Lapua, .300 Weatherby......223 wssm...any .223 etc....etc.....not a good example at all! To which the engineers might retract their statements....or say..." Well we were only saying this for this very specific example" . Sorry...enough said.

 

[Treeslug]

I did not believe any of the Creedmoor hype. I was a long action cartridge hunter. 30-06, 270 Win, 338 Win Mag. Then I got into 270 WSM and found that short action cartridges could still kick ***. My Dad always killed deer with .308 Winchester.

My first 6.5 Creedmoor in a Sauer 100 was totally shocking to me. Another followed in Mauser M18. And another Sauer 100 in 30-06 and was blown away that kind of accuracy could come out of a larger, more powerful cartridge.

When you have pinpoint accuracy, you can blow their brains out.

If you have pinpoint accuracy and EVERYTHING goes perfect—you can blow their brains out. If one LITTLE thing goes wrong, you could blow their bottom jaw off, or their nose off. I prefer to blow their heart and lungs to bits and pieces.

 

[Jon Bischof]

If you have pinpoint accuracy and EVERYTHING goes perfect—you can blow their brains out. If one LITTLE thing goes wrong, you could blow their bottom jaw off, or their nose off. I prefer to blow their heart and lungs to bits and pieces.

If your bullet passes through the back of the head first, it doesn't much matter what happens to their lower jaw on its way out.

 

[Treeslug]

If your bullet passes through the back of the head first, it doesn't much matter what happens to their lower jaw on its way out.

There's that big ol' little word again—IF. I know skipglo always shoots his doe in the head, but I've seen him shoot. Some folks don't shoot as well as he does.

Never seen a deer with a head wound that was still alive, but I have seen a few hogs head shot that were still existing. I have shot doe and spike bucks in the head, but only up close and under perfect conditions. I didn't say it is never an option!

 

[Jon Bischof]

There's that big ol' little word again—IF. I know skipglo always shoots his doe in the head, but I've seen him shoot. Some folks don't shoot as well as he does.

Never seen a deer with a head wound that was still alive, but I have seen a few hogs head shot that were still existing. I have shot doe and spike bucks in the head, but only up close and under perfect conditions. I didn't say it is never an option!

Okie Dokie and I understand your reservations. My dad used to shoot all his deer in the neck and they dropped. Until one day he dropped one and while he was getting down from the stand, it popped back up and bounded away never to be found.

On that kind of shot, you either connect with CNS or you don't.

My original point was that if you don't have pinpoint accuracy from your rifle/ammo, you don't even have the option to try it. If you do try it, you better hit what you're aiming at.

 

[Treeslug]

Okie Dokie and I understand your reservations. My dad used to shoot all his deer in the neck and they dropped. Until one day he dropped one and while he was getting down from the stand, it popped back up and bounded away never to be found.

On that kind of shot, you either connect with CNS or you don't.

My original point was that if you don't have pinpoint accuracy from your rifle/ammo, you don't even have the option to try it. If you do try it, you better hit what you're aiming at.

You and pinpoint accuracy almost certainly go together. That is why —if—is so conditional to this thread. I've done it with my 7mag on several occasions. I know the weapon well and shoot it often enough that I know where it is going to hit. I still would not try a long range shot on a deer's head. 75 yards is about my limit. Just the way I roll.If you can't hit a deer in the head at 75 yards, you probably need not be hunting. But if conditions are not right—wind, grass, limbs, etc, I'll pass even when I'm that close! Happy New Year

 

[Jon Bischof]

Head shooting is a very habitual thing for me since I kill hundreds of squirrels with headshots every year. We have a long season in Arkansas. Of course not long range but all head shots and does become instinctual after so many.

 

[LDHunter]

Deer's heads move a LOT... I don't understand the head shot thing at all. I've even quit neck shooting, not because I lost a deer I neck shot but because a lot of others have. I'm basically back to upper lung and heart shooting and counting on hydrostatic shock and good bullet placement with a sturdy bullet that opens fairly easily like the Nosler Partition.

 

[Jon Bischof]

Deer's heads move a LOT... I don't understand the head shot thing at all. I've even quit neck shooting, not because I lost a deer I neck shot but because a lot of others have. I'm basically back to upper lung and heart shooting and counting on hydrostatic shock and good bullet placement with a sturdy bullet that opens fairly easily like the Nosler Partition.

When I'm hunting in a place where it doesn't matter if the deer runs 30 or 40 yards after you shoot, then I totally agree with you. Why not give yourself the greatest margin for error and yes, hard to predict when a deer is going to move its head.

The reason I headshot a doe this year is because she was standing right next to a cut over. If she were to run into the cut over, I can't drive there and I couldn't drag her due to a back injury, so I had to either drop her dead where she was standing or just let her walk. I am pretty good at being able to tell if I have time to slip a bullet in before they move, just from 50 years of watching deer. So I knew I could put the bullet through her head before I decided to pull the trigger.

 

[Jon Bischof]

Deer's heads move a LOT... I don't understand the head shot thing at all. I've even quit neck shooting, not because I lost a deer I neck shot but because a lot of others have. I'm basically back to upper lung and heart shooting and counting on hydrostatic shock and good bullet placement with a sturdy bullet that opens fairly easily like the Nosler Partition.

My Dad shot lots of deer in the neck. But he lost one and he never tried it again after that. It has to sever the spine or it is NO GOOD.

 

[Jeff Heeg osoh]

Emp1953
Good for you, it looks like you found a good load that your rifle likes.

What a thread - it went to who's load to fps per grain to the right way to shoot a deer.

My H4350 averages 23 fps for every 3 tenths of a grain when in the 41 grain zone on the 6.5 creed. 25" barrel
My 20N29 averages 14 fps for every "1 grain" when in the 196 grain zone area on the 416 Warner 32" barrel

Cheers
JH