6.5 PRC for Extreme Long Range Hunting?

[lowdowndirtybugger]

I have a 6.5 saum.
I wouldn't use it for extreme long range hunting. Maybe deer to 1 k but beyond or bigger animals....never.

I would use this though

https://wn.nr/FXy7CX

 

[LastShot300]

I have a 6.5 saum.
I wouldn't use it for extreme long range hunting. Maybe deer to 1 k but beyond or bigger animals....never.

I would use this though

https://wn.nr/FXy7CX

Makes sense. Exterior ballistics is vital for target shooting but hunting is another thing, we need to start to think about terminal ballistics, bullet performance, etc.

 

[HiTechRob]

With bullets 150 grains and higher it seems the 6.5 PRC (Precision Rifle Cartridge) would be a good ELH cartridge. Not a bad "barrel burner" and very flat shooting with enough energy at say, 900 yards and out to 1,200 yards to kill deer and antelope. At 150 grains and above its BCs are very high and with VLD bullets it would good in the wind.

Anyone have hunting experience with this relatively new cartridge?

Eric B.

I love my Gunwerks Clymer 6.5 PRC. I have load recipes for 143 ELD-X and the 147 ELD-M. Candidly, I prefer the 147-grain ELD-M and it performs great for hunting (even though it is marketed as a target/match bullet). I have hit steel with good downrange energy and velocity at 1,200 yards, but never shot at or took an animal past 680 yards - yet. Ballistically, I should be able to ethically take an animal out to 880 - 920 yards to stay within my 1,000 ft-lbs and 1,600 fps watermark. As many others have noted, it is marginally better than other 6.5 options out there, but looking at the 6.5 Creedmoor, I can tell you I averaged over 230 fps more with the 6.5 PRC with similar recoil. For hunting, having that extra 230-250 fps and downrange energy is all the difference in the world to me. If you already have a 6.5 Creed, stick with it. If looking to choose 6.5 Creed vs. 6.5 PRC, I would not hesitate to go with the 6.5 PRC. I hope this helps!

 

[Litehiker]

Greyfox sez the 6.5/284 Norma is a bit faster than the 6.5 PRC so my statement that the 6.5 PEC was the fastest of the two is not true. I based it on a review which seems "off".

But even so they are so close that ya gotta wonder, why did Hornady develop the 6.5 PRC? Was it because they thought their corporate size could overwhelm the 6.5/284 with their own very similar cartridge?

Eric B.

 

[Capt RB]

Greyfox sez the 6.5/284 Norma is a bit faster than the 6.5 PRC so my statement that the 6.5 PEC was the fastest of the two is not true. I based it on a review which seems "off".

But even so they are so close that ya gotta wonder, why did Hornady develop the 6.5 PRC? Was it because they thought their corporate size could overwhelm the 6.5/284 with their own very similar cartridge?

Eric B.

I think to answer the WHY? 6.5/284 where I live on the east coast, outside of F class and some local 300yd shoots is fairly hard to find in a shop. It's a nice cartridge with some great brass as long as you have a long action. Very competitive without the recoil of a bigger gun. Outside of the west it has little following in the hunting world due to marketing and availability.
Yesterday at the range about 1300 2 retired gents were shooting their 6.5prc's Does all the same things good and bad. They bought them for "long range deer hunting" up in Maine. Which unless they are sitting clear cuts means 200yds and in. The marketing Hornady does is a marvel you have to admit.

 

[5RWill]

Greyfox sez the 6.5/284 Norma is a bit faster than the 6.5 PRC so my statement that the 6.5 PEC was the fastest of the two is not true. I based it on a review which seems "off".

But even so they are so close that ya gotta wonder, why did Hornady develop the 6.5 PRC? Was it because they thought their corporate size could overwhelm the 6.5/284 with their own very similar cartridge?

Eric B.

The reason why is they couldn't trademark the SAUM name despite being the sole supplier of brass for the 6.5 SAUM/GAP 4S when it first came out. So they went to the ruger compact magnum and designed the PRC around it. It's a good round though i think the premise of both was a bit misleading. The idea was to run something like h1000 at lower pressures getting 3100fps or so out of the 140gr class bullet for competition be it standard or ELR. Thus a cartridge superior to the CM but almost equal barrel life. Least this was the original intent to my understanding. Depending on the gun and area/climate that didn't really pan out. I know guys getting those velocities with ease, hell one out of a 21" SAUM but they aren't doing it anywhere near the pressures that were intended. My experience is the same i'm having to run 60gr of RL26 to get 3065fps with a 143gr ELD X out of a 23" barrel with my Dad's 6.5 SAUM.

As to the short action compromise the only short action magnums that really seem to achieve the magnum velocity without teetering on compressing the load or taking up powder capacity due to mag length restraints are Rich's Sherman Shorts IMO. Though for me 2.970 is still very much a short action. Idk what you guys are limited to in BDL style rifles because i run DBM on everything but 2.970 is enough to have 143s 10 thou off the lands and not morbidly dip into powder capacity.

 

[jasent]

Most sa's are 2.880

 

[Capt RB]

Most sa's are 2.880

There are more and more options being introduced for short action that are 2.950 and longer. You can buy acis pattern mags @ 2.950 and others @ 3.0. Savage centerfeeds re a touch longer than that.

 

[Greyfox]

Greyfox sez the 6.5/284 Norma is a bit faster than the 6.5 PRC so my statement that the 6.5 PEC was the fastest of the two is not true. I based it on a review which seems "off".

But even so they are so close that ya gotta wonder, why did Hornady develop the 6.5 PRC? Was it because they thought their corporate size could overwhelm the 6.5/284 with their own very similar cartridge?

Eric B.

There is a very good chance that the 6.5PRC will be very successful, a good move on Hornadys part. Prior to the 6.5 Creedmoor, other then in specific competitive circles, the 6.5's went largely unnoticed. Most of the mass rifle/hunting market has never heard of the 6.5x284. The wildcat heritage, lack of SAAMI registration and factory ammo has inhibited its market penetration. Just as Hornsdy successfully exploited the weaknesses of the then existing offerings which lead to the 6.5 Creedmoor, they are following a similar path with the 6.5PRC, piggy backing off the Creedmoors success. The promotion and availability of factory rifles and affordable performance ammo should make a difference. I think the attributes of a high BC 6.5 bullet traveling in the 3000FPS range with superb accuracy, and manageable recoil will be quickly recognized by shooters and hunters ....its already started. I'd bet that over the next 5 years many more 6.5PRC's will be sold to the mass market then 6.5x284's....but not necessarily because it's an inherently better performer then the 6.5x284. IMO.

 

[stwcattle]

A couple years ago I became interested in building a 6.5 capable of near 3000fts and the ability to take any animal I hunt out to 600 yards or so. I decided on a 6.5x284 and have 2 seasons with the rifle and I am very happy with the chambering as it has met all my expectations as far as accuracy and velocity.
If it were today, I admittedly would be looking hard at the 6.5PRC. There is no doubt in my mind 6.5PRC is here to stay and will be much supported by the shooting industry.

 

[Gamesniper19]

The 6.5 PRC is likely going to be the most utilized 6.5 caliber in the years to come. Why? Because Hornady is behind it, that is all.

For game animals every 100 fps matters to about 20 yards of travel at 1000 yards per second at 3000 fps. So that said, the difference between a 150 grain bullet at 2800 fps and a 130 grain bullet at 3200 fps is 120 yards of travel. Why am I talking about this, because a deer sized target can move quite a bit in that time. 2 steps can move the animal 10 yards which could mean the difference between a kill shot and wounding the animal

If we are talking about strictly a hunting rifle that can reach out to 1200 yards with great accuracy, I submit to this forum that speed matters as much as BC. The difference in BC between the same exact bullet in 140 and 150 grains is negligible and for paper or steel shooting, either target does not care if the bullet it moving at 2800 or 2900 fps but on an animal that can move, it could mean a lot

That all being true, my preference would be a bullet size and caliber that gets the bullet there as fast as possible with good energy. For deer and elk sized animals something in the 140 grain range takes both just fine out of something like a 6.5 PRC or 6.5x284. For a hunting rifle, barrel life is less of a challenge as most hunters shoot about 20-50 rounds per year on average so the 6.5x284 and with a 140 grain bullet at 3000 fps, give or take, would be a good choice. The 6.5 PRC runs about 2850 with the same load and it is going to be readily available at every outlet you can think of with similar speed and ballistics in a short action, in theory lighter rifle. If you hand load, the 6.5 GAP would be even better. GAP states >2000 rounds of barrel life and people are getting nearly 3200 FPS with 140 grain bullets. The 6.5 PRC is based on the 6.5 GAP so that says something.

If you dont hand load, the 6.5 PRC is going to be the future of 6.5 retail firearms. If you do handload and want the best all around 6.5 available, I would go with the GAP.

Why? I spent months asking myself the same question as in this thread and having a long history of shooting many new, wildcat, and non-retail calibers I personally went with the 6.5 GAP. The rifle is using a Defiance action, 24 inch PROOF Cf barrel with an 8 twist and shooting 140 grain berger VLD's at no kidding, 3220 fps with no pressure issues at all and a consistent high .2's groupings. Plenty of energy at 1000 yards to kill both species and yes, you do have to handload, and to get the best all around 6.5 I am willing to do that

 

[yobuck]

Well Hornady like all others is most interested in Hornadys bottom line. For most hunters today, the clock started running the day they got involved, so were going to have to be patient for awhile.
At some point, just as it happened almost 50 years ago, most who think this way will realize there are better choices than 6.5 for long range anything.

 

[johnlittletree]

There is a very good chance that the 6.5PRC will be very successful, a good move on Hornadys part. Prior to the 6.5 Creedmoor, other then in specific competitive circles, the 6.5's went largely unnoticed. Most of the mass rifle/hunting market has never heard of the 6.5x284. The wildcat heritage, lack of SAAMI registration and factory ammo has inhibited its market penetration. Just as Hornsdy successfully exploited the weaknesses of the then existing offerings which lead to the 6.5 Creedmoor, they are following a similar path with the 6.5PRC, piggy backing off the Creedmoors success. The promotion and availability of factory rifles and affordable performance ammo should make a difference. I think the attributes of a high BC 6.5 bullet traveling in the 3000FPS range with superb accuracy, and manageable recoil will be quickly recognized by shooters and hunters ....its already started. I'd bet that over the next 5 years many more 6.5PRC's will be sold to the mass market then 6.5x284's....but not necessarily because it's an inherently better performer then the 6.5x284. IMO.

I am not sure that it will be a success Just because Hornady developed it and is behind it. Look how long it has taken for the Creedmore to really catch on in a meaningful way. Sure now everyone that builds a bolt action offers something in 6.5 Creedmore. I know I take a dim view of companies churning out new cartridges that do not offer much other than novelty in many regards......I am still ticked off by all the Ultra Mags and Short Mag's and Ultra Short Mags almost none of them have really stood the test of time outside of passionate gun nuts like us that do more than just pull the deer rifle out the day before season just to check zero.

Same thing with a lot of modern handgun chamberings mostly revolvers but it is all over the place and finding ammo locally for these things if you do not reload is not at all easy.

You can not "Eat your cake and have it too!" so you can either keep pressures low and not get the speed you want or you have to raise the pressure to get the velocity you want. They always promise the moon and then give you a moon pie! The real problem is powder chemistry. In fact powder limitations in cartridges is almost as batter as battery and charging limitations in all electric vehicles. On top of that the steel used in rifle barrels is garbage by today's standards as well. If you use a better steel cost goes up not so much becasue of the price of the steel but because of the shorter life of tooling and machine time goes up as well.So until the steel improves and the powders improve it is really 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. It is truly like a dog chasing it's own tail of a toddler trying to get away from it's own shadow! We need to develop more pressure but at a cooler temp.! We need more efficiency out of the powder so less energy is being wasted as heat. The heat and abrasion is what burns through barrels.

Until that happens all of the new cartridges are mostly smoke and mirror. The 6.5PRC is basicly a 6.5 Creedmore "Magnum". What is next another 6.5 Super Magnum from Hornady 10 years from now? It would be different if it achieved 3100fps with a 143gr bullet at lower pressures but it does not do that which was the entire point of the cartridge. When a cartridge can not do what it was invented to do that is a pretty epic fail. On top of that I wont get in bed with a cartridge if many companies are not making brass for it proprietary cartridges with only one source of brass as not a good idea.

 

[Gamesniper19]

I am not sure that it will be a success Just because Hornady developed it and is behind it. Look how long it has taken for the Creedmore to really catch on in a meaningful way. Sure now everyone that builds a bolt action offers something in 6.5 Creedmore. I know I take a dim view of companies churning out new cartridges that do not offer much other than novelty in many regards......I am still ticked off by all the Ultra Mags and Short Mag's and Ultra Short Mags almost none of them have really stood the test of time outside of passionate gun nuts like us that do more than just pull the deer rifle out the day before season just to check zero.

Same thing with a lot of modern handgun chamberings mostly revolvers but it is all over the place and finding ammo locally for these things if you do not reload is not at all easy.

You can not "Eat your cake and have it too!" so you can either keep pressures low and not get the speed you want or you have to raise the pressure to get the velocity you want. They always promise the moon and then give you a moon pie! The real problem is powder chemistry. In fact powder limitations in cartridges is almost as batter as battery and charging limitations in all electric vehicles. On top of that the steel used in rifle barrels is garbage by today's standards as well. If you use a better steel cost goes up not so much becasue of the price of the steel but because of the shorter life of tooling and machine time goes up as well.So until the steel improves and the powders improve it is really 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. It is truly like a dog chasing it's own tail of a toddler trying to get away from it's own shadow! We need to develop more pressure but at a cooler temp.! We need more efficiency out of the powder so less energy is being wasted as heat. The heat and abrasion is what burns through barrels.

Until that happens all of the new cartridges are mostly smoke and mirror. The 6.5PRC is basicly a 6.5 Creedmore "Magnum". What is next another 6.5 Super Magnum from Hornady 10 years from now? It would be different if it achieved 3100fps with a 143gr bullet at lower pressures but it does not do that which was the entire point of the cartridge. When a cartridge can not do what it was invented to do that is a pretty epic fail. On top of that I wont get in bed with a cartridge if many companies are not making brass for it proprietary cartridges with only one source of brass as not a good idea.

It cannot be denied that bullet technology has pushed caliber technology. Over the past 10 years, coincidentally when the 6.5 Cm was approved, BC's and construction/reliability of construction of bullets now require us to use calibers that can push them. We need more COAL length, to the ratio of powder, to bullet size to push high BC bullets to extreme long range.
Lets look at an example of the same 140 grain bullet in 3 calibers and specifically compare powder ratio to bullet size. Assume for this test that all 3 powders are the optimum for speed, accuracy, and pressure.
6.5 CM - 44 grains powder = 31% bullet to powder ratio = 2850 fps
6.5 PRC - 56 grains powder = 40% bullet to powder ratio = 3080 fps
6.5 GAP - 62 grains powder = 44% bullet to powder ratio = 3190 fps
I submit that to be a 1000 yard extreme long range hunting rifle, a minimum of 3000 fps needs to be reached. More is good.

Johnlittletree, I hear you and data would suggest that 64% of all rifles are now built based on the short action which you kind of stated.. 52% of all short action custom rifles were a 6.5 CM, because Hornady pushed it. Hornady is the Amazon of the gun industry. If they deem it to be so, right or wrong, its going to happen.
The 6.5 PRC is a CM magnum, true. Hornady recognized the few shortcomings in the 6.5 CM, one being lack of velocity and energy as very long distance with high BC bullets, again not a big deal for targets and a big deal on animals. A lot like the 308, the parent for the CM.

Innovation is what pushes us to find calibers and bullets that change the shooting industry so "trying" short mags, and other wildcats is a good thing. Hence 6.5 GAP that hornady recognized as the most effective across all parameters of the 6.5's today. SO much so that they went to GAP and asked for their help in developing the 6.5 PRC, which the rumor is they wanted to buy the thing from GAP and they said no.

The 6.5 PRC will be bigger then the 6.5 CM. It has the ability to push 140 and 150 grain bullets at speeds that are more acceptable to hunters. Like it, dont like it, it is going to happen because hornady is making the brass, bullets, and marketing to companies and shooters alike. The 6.5 GAP will always be more of a handloaders gun.

I have both the CM and a GAP. The CM just became a "practice" rifle that doubles as my lightweight mountain rifle, easily capable out to 600+/- yards which i feel is IT'S limit on animals, given the data above, and will give me >3500 rounds of barrel life.

The 6.5 GAP, which I chose over the PRC because I exclusively hand load, is my go to extreme long range hunting rifle. GAP says 2000 round of barrel life and even if they are overstating that number by 25%, I shoot about 100 rounds a year out of my hunting rifles which would mean a rebarrel in 15 years...I can live with that knowing I have well over 3000 fps mzl vel and over 800 lbs of energy at 1000 yards.