6.5 PRC Build

[lee31]

I don't see it listed in the SAAMI specs?
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Z299-4_ANSI-SAAMI_CFR.pdf#page=13

Show me a factory rifle chambered in 6.5x284?

Here's a few from Savage. Cooper Christen arms, Cooper and Nosler also make rifles in 6.5x284. I think there might be a few more too.

 

[gregsjt]

Yeah, I saw that, I made a post above but for some reason it has to be approved by the Mod's before it will show up. I guess I'm not very nice

 

[MudRunner2005]

Aaron Davidson flat out said he asked Hornady why they didn't load for -284 and that was their response, that there was too much variability in chambering for them to load for it with low enough risk ... as in insurance company said no.

I thought Hornady was the cartridge experts, not their insurance company? Maybe they should trade businesses...

This is more people now than ever, the weight chasing race is finally coming to hunting just as it came to backpacking.

Yes, and it's just as irritating chasing ounces on a gun, as folks who chase a couple pounds for their drag car.

I am interested in your stats for this. If its from mostly associating with others on specialized forums like these I think either you have a confirmation bias that most reload, or your idea of "serious" just rules out anyone that uses factory ammo... even if it was true I dont see how its bad to give options to people that don't

My stats are based on what I hear, the folks I know, the folks I talk to, the folks who post here. Some people might be shooters and hunters, but don't have the money to get into reloading, or the time. Those are not the people I'm referring to. I'm referring to those who do, but would just rather buy a crap-shoot off the shelf, and expect it to do what tailored handloads will do...Which rarely happens.

Are you saying Hornadys factory loads cant shoot? I hope not, because I've been told by multiple builders now to try PH and Match first on various calibers because customers are shooting absolute bugholes and deciding not to reload. The last was specifically about PRC.

Once again, no... I shot HOrnady for years, and their old LE red box TAP .308 168 BTHP ammo shot 1-hole groups in my old custom .308. I'm not saying their ammo doesn't shoot at all... Don't put words in my mouth. What I'm saying is, don't expect it to shoot in every gun you buy. Nature of the beast, it just doesn't work that way.

My impressions of this statement is... the average hunter that buys box ammo is incapable of safety, and performance. Therefore, factory options designed for a common shooter are not only pointless but negative for the market.

Take it how you want, that's not how I meant it. I meant it as, the average hunter you will encounter in the woods can't even take a clean 150-200 yard shot on a deer, so how can you honestly feel safe with them now having ammo and guns capable of shooting to 1000 yards at an affordable price? Every armchair sniper in the world will think they're Chris Kyle... I don't feel any safer, quite the opposite. I used to sell guns and work in a gun store... I've met these people...MANY MANY MANY of them. Which was enough to make me stop hunting public land.

This entire caliber exists because Hornady is in the business to make money. For some reason that a terrible thing now and means the caliber is useless even though it delivers what it was designed to do, and fills a niche that was open. Stupid people being stupid doesn't have anything to do with it and shouldn't be a reason to dislike a product, if so we are pretty screwed because there's quite a few of them. I swear more than ever people cant stand having extra options.

Everything you own exists because someone was in the business of making money. That's a given. And no, that's not a terrible thing. It's the fact they are falsely enabling people who don't possess the discipline, training, and skills to shoot 1/10 of that distance, and yet, they now can afford this stuff, and will make our sport look bad. And it doesn't help that most of these people own 2 main cartridges... 6.5 CM and .300 WinMag. Why? Back to that wannabe sniper mentality... Their idiot buddies who also don't know **** about guns, told them the 6.5CM will shoot 5,000 yards like a laser beam, and the .300WM will drop elephants 3 in a row. With these newbies, it's literally the blind leading the blind, and things become hipster trends... I'm not a trendy person. I don't buy into fads...Never have, never will. That's why I dislike the product. It has nothing to do with the product itself.

Edit* This comes off more negative than I meant it after re-reading. I don't mean it to do so.

Yes, and both my statements, and your's are both matters of opinion. You don't have to like what I say, and I don't have to like what you say. That's what makes them OUR opinions. But we're both entitled to express them. I'm not offended by your opinion, but I will elaborate on mine a bit, since some of your responses seem to not be quite on the same page as how I meant mine, as well.

Now, I will tackle each one of these with my comments in blue text...

 

[MudRunner2005]

The prc is a mag case that is .1" shorter than a x284 and I think .3" shorter at the shoulder. that makes a wider, shorter column of powder than the 6.5x284 regardless of case taper. I am not claiming that the 6.5x284 is anything other than a wonderful round, and There are better cases than the PRC, but unless a person does their research, they may never know of them. Almost guaranteed they know of hornady's PRC because there is actual advertising pushing it.

I have watched bad hunters from time to time. Most of the time they don't even get a shot. That doesn't mean I think they should be prevented from trying. At 1000 yards, with a 3" grouping at 100 yards, there isn't a chance they are hitting an animal. I think the bigger problem is hunters that have shot to 1000, do so enough to get confident, and think it is the same going from steel/paper at the range or in competition to an animal.

We are at the top of our game. We spend our free time discussing the finer points of our craft and each new cartridge that comes out gets over analyzed. I am willing to bet we are the minority in the hunting crowd. Hundreds of Thousands trump of into the woods with a beat up .308, 3x scope, factory ammo and kill deer every year. Are they wrong? Hell no, that's just not the way I would do it.

I don't even own a 6.5x284, so you're not offending me in any way. I'm just here for the discussion and comparison. I just think that not all that glitters is gold...And I don't see the PRC filling any gaps in the market. I think they're creating gaps to fill, and making people think they need it by glittery hype and whored-out advertising. I'm not saying it's a bad cartridge, and I'm certainly not saying anything bad about Hornady, or them trying to make money. It's just frustrating when you see them trying too hard, but people are too dumb to notice it because all the gun editors get paid to pimp the newest trick, and the people are still eating it up, like it's the best thing since sliced bread, with no recollection or knowledge of what came before it, that can already do exactly what this newfangled thing does, or why this cartridge is supposedly the best thing ever...Until the next one comes out.

I'm just stating that people that get into this sport today, don't seem to do the research and history that should be necessary to get into this sport... But that's not really a surprise, as people these days are all about instant-gratification, and don't want to learn the skills to properly shoot that far. They want to buy it in a store, and walk out to the range like big johnson swinging, but in reality they're almost ****ing themselves hoping they don't completely embarrass their *** in front of the others...

I have watched many a bad hunter and many a bad shooter at the range. The hunters take some bad shots, just to risk putting meat in the freezer with no regard (or respect, IMO) for the animal's life. Gut-shot, leg-shot, hindquarters, spine, etc... They didn't have a clear shot, so they shot whatever brown they could see through the trees... Which is a ****** thing to do, IMO. There's no skill in that...That's just being an assh0le to the animals your hunting. I've watched shooters at the range shoot a 12" target at 100 yards, and get 3 shots inside of a 6" group and proudly declare "Yep, she's good..." and put it back in the case. These are people I don't want to be in the woods with.

I will agree with you on the misplaced confidence of the steel vs. the animal at 1000 yards. I had not really thought about that, that's a very good point. Every time I shoot ANY firearm at any distance, I shoot with the mindset that I'm shooting at a live target.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I don't see it listed in the SAAMI specs?
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Z299-4_ANSI-SAAMI_CFR.pdf#page=13

Show me a factory rifle chambered in 6.5x284?

It's not that they can't make the ammo, the problem is that they can't control what rifle that ammo gets shot out of. There are to many rifles that have been made with different dimensions for different versions of the 6.5x284. If they made factory ammo that would work in all of the rifles they would have to load it short and neuter the performance. Its easier to start with a clean slate that is optimized for long range shooting, i.e. the OAL is set up so that long, heavy for caliber bullets will work from magazines and the rifles are built with twist rates that will spin said heavy for caliber bullets.

I also beg to differ on the over the shelf rifles shooting at 1000 yards. You can go right now to any gun store, buy a Ruger RPR in 6.5 Creed for 1100 bucks, buy a box of Hornady match ammo, get a decent scope and go hit steel at 1000 yards all day long. Its not that hard, I've done it with a Remington SPS-SD in 6.5 Creed which cost about 1/4 of what a custom rig would run.

I don't think it matters if you think people should or shouldn't be able to shoot long range, the fact is that hornady and ruger already proved that there solution is what the market wants and frankly what the market needs. We should applaud a company for making it easier to shoot long range, not beat them up for it.

SAAMI is not the only place that certifies cartridges and chamber pressures. Plus, Norma is a Swedish company... That's why it's not SAAMI spec'd, but it is CIP certified, because it was done in a country other than the USA. Look up CIP if you want to know more about it. They're basically the international version of SAAMI. The Commission internationale permanente pour l'épreuve des armes à feu portatives ("Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms" – commonly abbreviated as C.I.P.)

They (Hornady) can't control what rifle ANY of their ammo is shot out of. So, how is this any higher of a liability risk, when you actually break it down to its rawest form?

I didn't say that it was impossible for an experienced LR shooter. This isn't a custom rifle vs. factory rifle argument. I have factory rifles that will shoot a mile. What I said was that it is impossible for INexperienced people to go buy one, and do it immediately. I want to see someone go buy one at a big box store, have the ******* at the big box store set it up improperly, then buy their factory ammo, and then go shoot at 1000 yards, when they have never previously done that before... I would love to see that.

Exactly my opinion of people shooting LR is my personal opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

But you are not comprehending what I'm saying...You're just arguing things you think are wrong. Re-read my posts...Don't read them with a sarcastic overtone, because that's not how they were written. I might make a few smartass comments in there, but the whole posts are rarely meant in jest.

 

[FEENIX]

hi guys,
I tried a search on the topic and couldn't find any threads so appreciate any guidance you can offer.

Long story short, I've been planning and saving for a 6.5-284 build and now wonder about a 6.5 PRC instead.

Thoughts?

Where should I go for latter if that is best path?

Thanks,

Jeff

Just pick one and go for it! I personally would go with the 6.5 PRC. Hornady's factory ammo and support is pretty darn good, their creativity and innovations has been spot on. The non-reloaders are very happy with their factory ammo offerings.

 

[lee31]

I didn't say that it was impossible for an experienced LR shooter. This isn't a custom rifle vs. factory rifle argument. I have factory rifles that will shoot a mile. What I said was that it is impossible for INexperienced people to go buy one, and do it immediately. I want to see someone go buy one at a big box store, have the ******* at the big box store set it up improperly, then buy their factory ammo, and then go shoot at 1000 yards, when they have never previously done that before... I would love to see that..

It's funny you bring this up. Because a guy I work with was just telling me a story today. This weekend while he was at a fairly big outdoor/hunting store. A younger kid came in probably between 18-21. He went to the gun counter and told the guys he wanted a rifle he could kill a deer with at 1000 yards this season. He told the guys behind the counter that he wanted a Ruger Precision Rigle in 6.5 Creedmoor with a Vortex scope because he had read some magazines and that the 6.5 Creedmoor was the best most accurate hunting cartridge out. One of the guys tried to steer the kid towards a Remington 700 long range in 7RemMag. But the kid wasn't having any of it. As he's been told that the 7mag is outdated technology.
The kid probably has never shot past 100 yards and knew nothing about rifles or ballistics. But the store sold him what he wanted and now he's going to be lobbing bullets at whitetails this fall. Makes a guy feel good knowing they're idiots out hunting like this. This is my biggest gripe with Hornady pushing these new cartridges like this. People buy the hype and think they own some magical rifle cartridge that defies the laws of physics.

 

[MudRunner2005]

It's funny you bring this up. Because a guy I work with was just telling me a story today. This weekend while he was at a fairly big outdoor/hunting store. A younger kid came in probably between 18-21. He went to the gun counter and told the guys he wanted a rifle he could kill a deer with at 1000 yards this season. He told the guys behind the counter that he wanted a Ruger Precision Rigle in 6.5 Creedmoor with a Vortex scope because he had read some magazines and that the 6.5 Creedmoor was the best most accurate hunting cartridge out. One of the guys tried to steer the kid towards a Remington 700 long range in 7RemMag. But the kid wasn't having any of it. As he's been told that the 7mag is outdated technology.
The kid probably has never shot past 100 yards and knew nothing about rifles or ballistics. But the store sold him what he wanted and now he's going to be lobbing bullets at whitetails this fall. Makes a guy feel good knowing they're idiots out hunting like this. This is my biggest gripe with Hornady pushing these new cartridges like this. People buy the hype and think they own some magical rifle cartridge that defies the laws of physics.

EXACTLY!!! This has been my main gripe with this the whole time, and why my opinion of these new hype-cartridges are ********. They try to feed this false sense of ability, and all the youtubers and gun writers don't help, by feeding the unwashed masses full of CM this or PRC that, and how awesome it is, and how the .308 Win is outdated, and the 6.5CM is the true do-all best thing ever, and blah blah blah... Every cartridge IS what it IS! It can't be more, but it can be less. It can be more than factory ammo and standard bullet weights, but you can never compare the .308 Win to a .300 Weatherby in performance...It's just not the same animal. But they keep trying to make the 6.5CM into something bigger, badder, newer, and better than what it really is, and what it's capabilities really are. Now they're doing the same with the PRC.

 

[Viking264]

FWIW, I'm getting ~2950 with the 143 ELDX out of a 26" 6.5x55mm. This is with Reloader 26. Not quite the V0 of a 6.5-284, but pretty **** close, and good brass is far more affordable.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

EXACTLY!!! This has been my main gripe with this the whole time, and why my opinion of these new hype-cartridges are ********. They try to feed this false sense of ability, and all the youtubers and gun writers don't help, by feeding the unwashed masses full of CM this or PRC that, and how awesome it is, and how the .308 Win is outdated, and the 6.5CM is the true do-all best thing ever, and blah blah blah... Every cartridge IS what it IS! It can't be more, but it can be less. It can be more than factory ammo and standard bullet weights, but you can never compare the .308 Win to a .300 Weatherby in performance...It's just not the same animal. But they keep trying to make the 6.5CM into something bigger, badder, newer, and better than what it really is, and what it's capabilities really are. Now they're doing the same with the PRC.

Your frustration is with stupid people. The cartridge you can't stand because of the stupid people has done nothing wrong. It is a 6.5-284 that fits in a short action(well...some) it can shoot a 140 at over 3kfps, and it has factory loaded ammo. As much as you don't like factory match ammo which of course is fine, it's still a viable choice for much of the market.

I've already admitted my bias, I have a ton of skin in the game. There's a reason I chose it. It has a blatant niche in the market. Just because you don't like stupid people making up magic and fake dreams about a cartridge doesn't take away its usefulness.


We have this same cartridge hype conversation over and over again.

28 Nosler is amazing! No it sucks! We had the 7stw back in my day and we were happy with what we had, kids these days buying there hi powered weapons and ****in in my yard. (I jest) but still CM, PRC, WSM, the Noslers it's all the same tune.

 

[Kimber7man]

It's funny you bring this up. Because a guy I work with was just telling me a story today. This weekend while he was at a fairly big outdoor/hunting store. A younger kid came in probably between 18-21. He went to the gun counter and told the guys he wanted a rifle he could kill a deer with at 1000 yards this season. He told the guys behind the counter that he wanted a Ruger Precision Rigle in 6.5 Creedmoor with a Vortex scope because he had read some magazines and that the 6.5 Creedmoor was the best most accurate hunting cartridge out. One of the guys tried to steer the kid towards a Remington 700 long range in 7RemMag. But the kid wasn't having any of it. As he's been told that the 7mag is outdated technology.
The kid probably has never shot past 100 yards and knew nothing about rifles or ballistics. But the store sold him what he wanted and now he's going to be lobbing bullets at whitetails this fall. Makes a guy feel good knowing they're idiots out hunting like this. This is my biggest gripe with Hornady pushing these new cartridges like this. People buy the hype and think they own some magical rifle cartridge that defies the laws of physics.

the guy behind the gun counter was trying to talk him out of a heavy *** rifle into a lighter rifle, good. But the 6.5 creed chambering choice would be much easier for the kid to learn to shoot accurately and economically....

 

[Deleted member 103481]

I'm sure it happens, but I have never in my life heard someone at a gun shop saying these outlandish things about C.M. and PRC (I've never heard PRC mentioned...ever). So it's hard to imagine it happens that much other than to people who literally work behind the counter as you did.

But then again I try to find small shops without tons of idiot draw and try not to spend much time in there...not because the owners aren't good people but because it kills my wallet!

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Yes, and both my statements, and your's are both matters of opinion. You don't have to like what I say, and I don't have to like what you say. That's what makes them OUR opinions. But we're both entitled to express them. I'm not offended by your opinion, but I will elaborate on mine a bit, since some of your responses seem to not be quite on the same page as how I meant mine, as well.

Now, I will tackle each one of these with my comments in blue text...

Yes... of course we are both entitled to our opinions....?

The difference is your opinion is that you don't like the cartridge because
"I'm not a trendy person. I don't buy into fads...Never have, never will. That's why I dislike the product. It has nothing to do with the product itself."

You don't like trendy things... cool. Who cares, the problem is you are saying it brings nothing to the market. This is false. No matter how trendy or hyped it is, it's simply false.

Whether those things apply/are useful to the OP determines if it is a better option for them than 6.5-284.

As an added point the guys at the drag strip that are bent about people cutting weight for better times these days would be in a much better mood if they were winning..

 

[MudRunner2005]

Your frustration is with stupid people. The cartridge you can't stand because of the stupid people has done nothing wrong. It is a 6.5-284 that fits in a short action(well...some) it can shoot a 140 at over 3kfps, and it has factory loaded ammo. As much as you don't like factory match ammo which of course is fine, it's still a viable choice for much of the market.

I've already admitted my bias, I have a ton of skin in the game. There's a reason I chose it. It has a blatant niche in the market. Just because you don't like stupid people making up magic and fake dreams about a cartridge doesn't take away its usefulness.


We have this same cartridge hype conversation over and over again.

28 Nosler is amazing! No it sucks! We had the 7stw back in my day and we were happy with what we had, kids these days buying there hi powered weapons and ****in in my yard. (I jest) but still CM, PRC, WSM, the Noslers it's all the same tune.

I agree. It's all the same hype, just generations apart. But in these days of invention, the gaps are MUCH closer than they used to be back when the STW came about in the late 70's/early 80's. I've been shooting the STW since 2002...I also got my first 7mm RemMag that same year. So, yeah, I've been in that game for a long time, as well. Have 2 in my safe. I like the .28 Nosler, but don't own one, because I already have 2 STW's. Thought about converting one just for fun, but... Maybe later. Yes, I know they're ballistic twins. For ease of finding ammo and brass, it would be easier for someone these days to get into the .28 Nosler over the 7mm STW, because of all the factory rifles being offered in it. I get what you're saying, I just have a beef with stupid people in general, not just in the hunting/gun department.