6.5 PRC Build

[MudRunner2005]

i would not build either one on a factory short action. 6.5x284 is plain too long. PRC has the same case length as a .260 rem. slightly longer neck, but the same case length.

I really like the idea, but it is too long to build from take off donor action. I am referring specifically to savage, Remington and Winchester short actions using DBM.

I know a 6.5x284 will push a 140 Berger to 3100 FPS with h4350. I think the prc could do the same with more potential for accuracy. 30 degree shoulder, longer than normal necks and short wide powder columns have been all the rage because they work. PPCs and x47Lapuas are setting a lot of world records for accuracy. If anything, the prc looks like a 6.5x47 lapua that has been given the magnum upgrade.

Agreed on the LA vs. SA for both. But the 6.5x284 Norma has a 35º shoulder, and less wall taper, so it has an even better powder column than the PRC based on the 2 SAAMI designs. Also, longer necks vs. shorter necks have proven to be snake oil.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I built a creedmoor to see what it could do and to test the hype. It's not anything special ballistically but I knew that from the start: You're only going to get so much from 40-50 grains of powder. However, it did exactly what it was supposed to. Got more people into a sport which in turn brought more money in and has helped bring an un-quantifiable amount of new products to compete for that extra influx of cash. That benefits everybody.

I see us share similar beliefs on several subjects, Mud, but Badmouthing hornady because every Tom dick and sally has a creedmoor isn't fair. It was well thought out and has done great things for the sport, even if it added a few goobers.

I like to experiment and I know what a 6.5x284 will do. If I had the spare resources I would definitely spend a barrel on a PRC just to know for myself.

A few? That's debatable... I've overheard so many morons in the gun stores talking about the CM's magical powers and how "anyone can just buy a gun and go shoot deer at 1000 yards"... That's scary. I've watched folks who are supposedly "avid hunters" at the range averaging 2-3 MOA at 100 yards, and feeling that's acceptable. That's how animals get maimed and wounded and long range hunters/shooters get a bad reputation.

I don't badmouth Hornady for the sake of it, I don't dislike Hornady as a company, it's the fact that we already had cartridges that did as much, and better than both the CM and PRC, but yet, the marketing hype, the timing, and all the advertising ******** got everyone believing how amazing and new and revolutionary they are...Which is bullcrap. They build up hype to boost sales. Yes, I know sales is what drives the industry, but it's so **** irritating.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Oh really???



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5-284_Norma

So, why can't they make 6.5x284 ammo again?

Aaron Davidson flat out said he asked Hornady why they didn't load for -284 and that was their response, that there was too much variability in chambering for them to load for it with low enough risk ... as in insurance company said no.

And the answer is no they should not load it 2.8", they should load it for long action rifles. The weight difference in a LA and SA is barely noticeable except only to the most anal-retentive sticklers hunting for a certain weight rifle.

This is more people now than ever, the weight chasing race is finally coming to hunting just as it came to backpacking.

As for your justification, most serious hunters and shooters reload their own ammo and don't ever buy factory ammo to begin with... So, your argument falls on mostly deaf ears, other than those who don't reload.

I am interested in your stats for this. If its from mostly associating with others on specialized forums like these I think either you have a confirmation bias that most reload, or your idea of "serious" just rules out anyone that uses factory ammo... even if it was true I dont see how its bad to give options to people that don't

And no, nobody can go buy a box of ammo and a rifle over the counter and go shoot at 1000 yards. That is why I call it marketing HYPE! It's not realistic. They make you THINK it is, so you'll buy into their ********, and buy their products, but it's not.

Are you saying Hornadys factory loads cant shoot? I hope not, because I've been told by multiple builders now to try PH and Match first on various calibers because customers are shooting absolute bugholes and deciding not to reload. The last was specifically about PRC.

And as for bringing long range shooting to the masses, I've met thousands of your average shooter and hunter, and IMO, most shouldn't even be allowed in the woods with a rifle, much less trying to wound animals or shoot steel at 1,000 yards. Most can't accurately shoot over 100...And believe that if you can get all 3 inside a pie plate, that their rifle is "on" for hunting season. Scary, huh? This pandora's box is about as bad as if you let a bunch of Jerry's Kids run the large hadron collider at CERN... The results will only be detrimental to our sport and our cause.

My impressions of this statement is... the average hunter that buys box ammo is incapable of safety, and performance. Therefore, factory options designed for a common shooter are not only pointless but negative for the market.



This entire caliber exists because Hornady is in the business to make money. For some reason that a terrible thing now and means the caliber is useless even though it delivers what it was designed to do, and fills a niche that was open. Stupid people being stupid doesn't have anything to do with it and shouldn't be a reason to dislike a product, if so we are pretty screwed because there's quite a few of them. I swear more than ever people cant stand having extra options.

Edit* This comes off more negative than I meant it after re-reading. I don't mean it to do so.

 

[Schnyd112]

Agreed on the LA vs. SA for both. But the 6.5x284 Norma has a 35º shoulder, and less wall taper, so it has an even better powder column than the PRC based on the 2 SAAMI designs. Also, longer necks vs. shorter necks have proven to be snake oil.

The prc is a mag case that is .1" shorter than a x284 and I think .3" shorter at the shoulder. that makes a wider, shorter column of powder than the 6.5x284 regardless of case taper. I am not claiming that the 6.5x284 is anything other than a wonderful round, and There are better cases than the PRC, but unless a person does their research, they may never know of them. Almost guaranteed they know of hornady's PRC because there is actual advertising pushing it.

I have watched bad hunters from time to time. Most of the time they don't even get a shot. That doesn't mean I think they should be prevented from trying. At 1000 yards, with a 3" grouping at 100 yards, there isn't a chance they are hitting an animal. I think the bigger problem is hunters that have shot to 1000, do so enough to get confident, and think it is the same going from steel/paper at the range or in competition to an animal.

We are at the top of our game. We spend our free time discussing the finer points of our craft and each new cartridge that comes out gets over analyzed. I am willing to bet we are the minority in the hunting crowd. Hundreds of Thousands trump of into the woods with a beat up .308, 3x scope, factory ammo and kill deer every year. Are they wrong? Hell no, that's just not the way I would do it.

 

[Weatherby Fan]

I shoot a lot recreationally, I'm at the range 3 times a week or more and I take 3 to 5 Hunting rifles with me, 6mm CM, 6.5 CM, 6.5-284, 6.5 PRC, 280AI, 28 Nosler, just to name a few.
Of all the new Factory ammo out there Hornady's Precision Hunter ELD-X and Precision Match ELD-M ammo is amazingly accurate out of the box, Nosler has some great factory ammo but about twice the cost.

So if a chap wants to build a 6.5 PRC over a 6.5-284 and isn't a handloader its a no brainer, go 6.5 PRC or the 6.5CM, accurate and cheap ammo with excellent hunting and target bullets, hard to say no to the offerings.

I love my 6.5-284 but factory ammo is brutally expensive in this part of the world.
Thankfully I have the option of Handloading.

If you ask me Hornady has done what Winchester and Remington should have done years back with their respective SA Cartridges 6.5-WSM and 6.5-SAUM, but to continually diss the creation of another great 6.5 cartridge or any new cartridge for that matter seems silly to me.

 

[lee31]

Nothing, and the same goes if you flip the script...That is my point. The PRC was irrelevant before Hornady ever "created" it. Their new marketing strategy is to make solutions for nonexistent problems. It is 100% manufactured hype. That's how modern sales works, because thanks to social media programming and technology, people these days have the memory capacity of a dementia patient, and the attention span of a squirrel.

100 percent agree.

 

[lee31]

It's not marketing hype, it's what they have to do if they want to have factory rifles and factory ammo that works together for long range shooting. Hornady's formula is to partner with rifle manufactures and offer factory solutions for long range shooting. They can't load factory 6.5x284 and make it work in a factory gun, their isn't a standard saami spec. Should they load it at 2.8" oal so it will fit in standard short actions or should they load it long so you have to use a long action? Should they use the Norma spec or the Win spec. Wait, does any manufacturer chamber factory rifles in 6.5x284? It would never work, there are to many variables that they can't control.

But, if Hornady makes a new round they can set the spec so it will work with long bullets and make sure the rifles are built with fast enough twists to accommodate the long bullets. Now a guy can buy a new rifle off the shelf, get a box of bullets over the counter and go hit steel at a thousand yards. It's that simple, they're bringing long range shooting to the masses.

Yes Savage,Nosler,Christensen and Cooper to name a few.

 

[lee31]

This entire caliber exists because Hornady is in the business to make money. For some reason that a terrible thing now and means the caliber is useless even though it delivers what it was designed to do, and fills a niche that was open. Stupid people being stupid doesn't have anything to do with it and shouldn't be a reason to dislike a product, if so we are pretty screwed because there's quite a few of them. I swear more than ever people cant stand having extra options.

Edit* This comes off more negative than I meant it after re-reading. I don't mean it to do so.

Hornady is responsible for the 6.5mm caliber for existing???? Pretty sure you mean cartridge not cailber

 

[CLP]

Lots and Lots of good advice and opinions in this thread.

I've got both and shot both a lot and I'll respond here based solely on what I have experienced. Both the PRC and 6.5x284 are awesome rounds in their own right. Obviously the 6.5x284 is a legend and not something that'll be vanquished anytime soon. When it comes to performance, I can't say that I would recommend one over the other given my experience. They're relatively the same with respect to speed if you do the math properly. I'm currently running a 143 ELD-X near 3050 in the 6.5x284 with a 26" tube versus 2890 in my PRC with a 20" tube.

The key difference for me is short action versus long action. To get out to the lands in a factory chambered 6.5x284 I've always utilized a long action and at times ran into magazine box issues. The PRC works just fine in a short action (longer free bore version) although I did have to use a Wyatt box to feed properly with a 140 Berger.

I ran a box of the factory 143 grain Precision Hunter ammo through my gun (perhaps it just wasn't the right load) and got amazing accuracy out to 200 yards but had minor vertical dispersion issues beyond that due to the ES being in excess of 100 fps across the box. I'm currently hand loading 140 Berger's around 2830 with amazing results so far out to 600 yards. ELD-X bullets also perform well at 2890 but are slightly edged out by the Bergers at distance. I've great success in with Retumbo and H1000 in the PRC which is a bonus to me due to temperature stability.

That all said, is the 6.5 PRC better? It's all about personal desire and what variables are important for you when deciding. Is the PRC Hype? 100% but this is America and that's just what we do. Cottonelle can do it with toilet paper so why can't Hornady do it with the PRC?

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Hornady is responsible for the 6.5mm caliber for existing???? Pretty sure you mean cartridge not cailber

Pretty sure I do lol good catch

 

[gregsjt]

I don't see it listed in the SAAMI specs?
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Z299-4_ANSI-SAAMI_CFR.pdf#page=13

Show me a factory rifle chambered in 6.5x284?

It's not that they can't make the ammo, the problem is that they can't control what rifle that ammo gets shot out of. There are to many rifles that have been made with different dimensions for different versions of the 6.5x284. If they made factory ammo that would work in all of the rifles they would have to load it short and neuter the performance. Its easier to start with a clean slate that is optimized for long range shooting, i.e. the OAL is set up so that long, heavy for caliber bullets will work from magazines and the rifles are built with twist rates that will spin said heavy for caliber bullets.

I also beg to differ on the over the shelf rifles shooting at 1000 yards. You can go right now to any gun store, buy a Ruger RPR in 6.5 Creed for 1100 bucks, buy a box of Hornady match ammo, get a decent scope and go hit steel at 1000 yards all day long. Its not that hard, I've done it with a Remington SPS-SD in 6.5 Creed which cost about 1/4 of what a custom rig would run.

I don't think it matters if you think people should or shouldn't be able to shoot long range, the fact is that hornady and ruger already proved that there solution is what the market wants and frankly what the market needs. We should applaud a company for making it easier to shoot long range, not beat them up for it.

 

[Schnyd112]

http://www.covecreekoutfitters.com/gun-room/nosler-m48-patriot-liberty-rifle-6-5x284-norma

This is what my buddy has. It has killed at least one bull elk, several deer and most recently an antelope. Running 140 Berger hybrids at just under 3100 FPS with h4350. They are out there, and his shoots very well.

 

[gregsjt]

Yes Savage,Nosler,Christensen and Cooper to name a few.

Ok, I stand corrected, Savage does chamber rifles in 6.5x284 Norma. But I think my point is still valid, Hornady wants people to be able to buy ammo and guns over the counter and go shoot long range and with past wildcat cartridges there is too much liability because of the variability in past versions of the round.

Listen to this podcast:
https://www.gunwerks.com/blogs/podcast/is-the-new-6-5-prc-here-to-stay

The guys from Gunwerks talk about this issue related to thier 7mm LRM.

 

[louis f]

I thought the PRC was the brain child of George Gardner. Made to get to the velocity near the limit of 3200 fps for competition & do it with the Hornady 147 Gr ELD bullet. Because the Creedmore fell short of the allowed velocity limit.