6.5-284 vs 270 win

[liltank]

A friend has a 24" Lilja 3 groove on his custom 270. The slowest speed with 150 VLDs and H4831SC and H1000 was 2950. Most were near or at 3000fps!

JMO, but forget anything "Ackley." He didn't improve much of anything other than extra work case forming etc. The biggest gain you get from making an Ackley Improved caliber is "ooooo, aahhhhh, and the wow factor." If someone likes Ackley Improved calibers, that is your choice and good luck with them. I think they are a waste of time with the exception of maybe a 280AI.

There's nothing you can't accomplish in .277 if you use the Win, Roy, or WSM.

I read an article on Ackley Improved rounds. There is a limitation to the rounds that really benefit from that process. I know that it helps with case life because it reduces the amount of stretch you get in the shoulder area and neck. It does increase volume from 10 up to 30 percent case capacity depending on caliber. The process reduces the angle of the shoulder and the slope in taper of the case. New cartridges really don't benefit from this process because the shoulders are already between 35 and 40 degrees which is traditionally an Ackley shoulder.

However older cartridges like the Weatherby Mags, H&H Mags, and 08 parent case cartridges really benefit from this process. The only ones that really don't is the 308 (Which some have had increase performance in varying degrees) due to the caliber size and lack of shoulder space to improve the cartridge. I truly believe the 270Win would also benefit as much if not more than the 280AI due to its smaller caliber. The 22-250 and 243 benefit greatly because both cases utilize a severe taper in body length. With proper loading and use of the newer powders, a 270 Win could essentially be a proper short magnum (not necessarily equal) in an 06 casing.

There is an Ohhhh Awwww factor yes, but some are very practical in their application. Try and explain to a guy that has won National championships and successful to and well beyond 1000yrds with an Ackley improved round that it is pointless. When it comes to target applications, speed is king in order to best eliminate the factor of wind deflection. There are cartridges essentially being evolved from the old school method of P.O. Ackley's design. In closing I do agree it is not for every cartridge, but the older the caliber, the more likely it will improve its performance from 50 to 200 fps by this process.

Tank

 

[Derek M.]

Try and explain to a guy that has won National championships and successful to and well beyond 1000yrds with an Ackley improved round that it is pointless.

Well, that is easy because the same outcome has occurred with non-Ackley calibers, and likely more often, though I have no evidence. So it is pointless in my opinion. Regarding case life, there are lots of factors that affect that. I have Lapua, Winchester, and Norma brass that I've fired upwards of 30 times, I don't believe an Ackley shaped case is going to impress me. But that's not to say it won't impress someone else.

While at the range, I've seen a few guys with 280 AI, 30-06 AI, and one 260 AI. All 3 had feeding problems and all 3 belonged to 3 different shooters. Only the 280 AI demonstrated any pseudo-remarkable difference as the same shooter had a 280 as well that he planned on converting to an AI. Even he wasn't convinced it was worth the conversion.

Definitely fertile grounds for discussion but I don't think this thread is "paper/target-based." And in terms of kill-ability, I would still argue that at any reasonable range, the game would never know the difference between a 280AI or a 280 Remington with all other factors the same. The benefits to the AI calibers, IMO, are so minimal that I wouldn't waste my time on them.

 

[rscott5028]

I love my 6.5x284 Savage and my PO Ackley built 270win. (not AI)

They're both excellent hunting cartridges. 6.5x284 is sexier and I give it a slight edge for long range precision. (just my opinion)

But, if you're far away from your loading bench and you shoot up all your ammo on the range or at a mess of hogs, you can't expect to walk into the local Jiffy Mart and pick up a box of 6.5x284. ...maybe not even 270wsm. On the other hand, they will have 270win and 30-06 on the shelf.

I generally solve that by carrying a spare rifle when I leave town. And, I don't own any 2 rifles with the same caliber because (a) I want one of everything, and (b) I'm afraid of mixing up handloads. My brother got a case stuck in my dad's 25-06 like that. Fortunately, we were able to clear it with no harm having been done.

Best of luck with your project.

 

[Derek M.]

I love my 6.5x284 Savage and my PO Ackley built 270win. (not AI)

They're both excellent hunting cartridges. 6.5x284 is sexier and I give it a slight edge for long range precision. (just my opinion)

But, if you're far away from your loading bench and you shoot up all your ammo on the range or at a mess of hogs, you can't expect to walk into the local Jiffy Mart and pick up a box of 6.5x284. ...maybe not even 270wsm. On the other hand, they will have 270win and 30-06 on the shelf.

I generally solve that by carrying a spare rifle when I leave town. And, I don't own any 2 rifles with the same caliber because (a) I want one of everything, and (b) I'm afraid of mixing up handloads. My brother got a case stuck in my dad's 25-06 like that. Fortunately, we were able to clear it with no harm having been done.

Best of luck with your project.

Good post. I agree-I always take 2 rifles when I go on any hunt. You never know what may happen in the field. A friend of mine in AZ had his rifle shouldered when the strap came loose. The rifle fell backwards off of his shoulder and the scope glass cracked. Good thing I had a new 270 in the truck with 40 rounds of handloads I just finished that week. We were about 25 minutes up the mountain and he ran back and got it.

I differ in that I like at least a couple of rifles of the same caliber. If I have my mind made up on a certain bullet and one rifle doesn't like it, I have a second that may. This has served me well.

 

[barthmonster]

I figure you can never have too many guns also... Or barrels if you have an Encore...

If I get another barrel for the savage and if it's for long-range hunting I see a lot of good calibers... 270 AI, 280 AI, but one I would not have to fireform (PITA) for would be a straight .284 win, optimized for heavy VLD's...

I was out hunting about a month ago and my pantleg caught on a knot sticking out of a log I was stepping over. My gun was in both hands in front of me at the time. Somehow I knew to turn while falling and land on my side, arms still holding the gun which never touched the ground. Lucky I guess...