5,000 fps coyote rifle?

[J E Custom]

It's been done already. It's called the .224 McDonald. It's a 6 br improved necked down. Caveat is it's shooting 30 grain pills but they are pushing 5200+ FPS.

I looked at this cartridge and realized that the WSSM could hold as much powder and cases were easy to get. I also talked to several smiths that had similar projects and they said the same thing that I had found out happened to them also. Velocity was not the issue. Twist rates, grove count and bullet quality was their main problem.

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of anything Because I am one of the worst at trying something that Is considered impossible or impractical, just trying to warn anyone going down this road what's in store for them.

The end results appear to be the bullets reach their limit, and accuracy is the final road block.It does no good to push a bullet to a high velocity and lose accuracy in the process. I had similar problems with a 7 mm that could push a 140 grain bullet at 3800+ ft/sec. If a person is lucky and chooses the right bullets, the right barrel twist and grove count, the right cartridge and powder combination, They might be lucky and have a winner. But there are so many variables, that only take just one to ruin the project, You have to ask your self is it worth it to spend all the time and money on a gamble.

Some of us can remember when Weatherby did some velocity test for the government and both found them to be impractical. No matter how fast a projectile is pushed, it will always have drop/trajectory. so we compensate for it with drop calculations (And practice).

Have fun and keep us posted on the outcome.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Backcountry sports]

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

 

[Backcountry sports]

Remington 204 caliber 4050 fps

 

[Gater]

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

According to Berger the new 85.5 grain .223 hybrid is good for 1'000 I know 85.5 isn't light for .223 but 85.5 at a 1'000 that's a challenge for anyone

 

[moonshine11361]

I know the "light and fast" isn't the best method for extreme long range, but that isn't what this is about. This is about hitting 5000 fps or dang close for having the farthest possible aim on fur range. Also, getting stupid fast speeds, just because. I would like to discuss how to get to 5000 fps. Also, I know it has already been done. Also, I know that barrel life will likely be 500-700 rounds. Maybe even less. Don't care. This also isn't going to be a 1000 yard rifle with these light bullets. I want 400+ yards of coyote point blank range, the more the better. I'm going to develop a load, zero it, and every shot fired after that will hopefully kill a coyote. Now that we got that out of the way....

In the coyote hunting I have done, if I have missed a shot it was for one of two reasons. Either I misjudged the range and hit high/low using my .223, or it took me too long trying to range a dog and put the dope in my rifle, and they moved off. The best results I have had has been with my 22-250 using 40 grain v-max pills around 4000 fps, zeroed at 300 yards, I could aim on fur out to about 350 or so on a dog. I would like to make that even farther.

This will be with a 22 cal, I think going up to 6mm will require a good bit more cartridge to get there, and going town to 20 cal or 17 takes away some energy potential. I want to use the 44 grain hammer hunter, as a mono it should hold together just fine and will do a number to coyotes. I plan on HBN coating these, maybe squeeze a little more speed out and hopefully improve the already short barrel life.

My initial thought is a 22-243 improved, quality brass is plentiful. But then I figured, it would be easier to put together a 22-284 and get a little more capacity, but would that even be big enough? Possibly a 22-284 improved? With proper powders and a 30" barrel of the proper twist, would 5,000 fps be attainable with an HBN coated 44 grain hammer?

What are thoughts? Any other ideas on how to get a 44 grain pill to 5,000 fps?

I know a 223 wssm can reach 4600 fps.

 

[deaddownrange]

might make it. I played with it in quickdesign first and made changes came up with 78.9 gr.
would be fun to try if the money was there to play

 

[jareese]

Just an observation - HBN or Moly coating will actually Slow down the projectile due to less pressure. Typically with coated bullets, you have to use more powder to obtain same speeds as Non-Coated bullets.

 

[jcbjr]

Hahaha no I don't care about fur at all, not sure if a 44 grain bullet would do it, but if I could make 1 coyote turn into 2 pieces that would be just fantastic.....

Have you considered a rail gun?. Last time I did any hot reloading was in the 1970's with 25'06; I thought the mid 3000's was the Holy Grail. This is insanely interesting; coyote splitter, ha ha.

 

[300 magnum]

Had a buddy get his 22-250 up to 5100 with a 30gr Barnes vermit grenades. He used a 1:18 twist barrel that was 28" long.

 

[MerlinMc]

I have had great results from my 22-243 Winchester (plain "W" not MS or AI) using a 75 grain Hornady ELD-M. Both barrels (1 for Desert Tech and 1 for Blaser) are 28". This set up and 48 gr of RL25 gets close to 4,000 FPS. While it's < 5,000 the BC of ELD is higher and it hits hard for a 22. Have not tried lighter bullets. The Berger 85.5 looks interesting though that's going the opposite direction from what the OP desired.

I also really like .204 for coyote, but those are also < 5,000 and not really long range rifles.

 

[wildcat westerner]

Hello, I have had a .22 CHeetah and we wrote on an article for the Ergensplitten Loudenboomer (22/460 Weatherby)for an article in Precision Shooting many years ago. A load of 115 grains of powder got a .22 bullet to 5,016 fps. Throat erosion- it was gone in 78 rounds! Since you are already at the practical limits of "stretched string" trajectory, I would advise that any small gains to be made would be at the practical losses of: recoil increase, barrel heat and throat erosion. I would practice more and get a feel for distance.

 

[Radman]

Google "eargesplitten loudenboomer"

Ha ha. Def Leppard would agree!

 

[Junkysavage]

Hope you get there or close anyway. I love melting coyotes with 25-06 and 85gr bt. Can't imagine the whop at 5k!

 

[AKtrader]

I have a Light weight Tikka 22-250 with a 22" barrel, 1-14 twist using 36gr Hammer bullets at 4325fps using 39gr of Benchmark and lapua brass with no pressure signs. Accuracy is excellent. If you call Hammer bullets they will hook you up with the 36gr bullets. Every gun is different and loads should be worked up from a safe book load while checking for signs of pressure.