3300fps to fast for Barnes TTSX

[lee31]

I've killed probably a thousand whitetail deer in my life, and you think I'm being antagonistic, but I'm not. I believe what you are saying. I'm serious when I say that some animals just have a whole lot more determination than others. I've shot hundreds of deer that folded like a lawn chair the second I touched the trigger, but I've also seen dozens hit just as well, and completely dead on their feet with their hearts absolutely liquefied, run hundreds of yards. My buddy Bill, (338 Dude) shot a coyote a week or so ago, and passed a 140gr berger from brisket to butthole, cut off about 4" of tail and a blood trail that looked like you hit the carotid artery of an elephant for probably 400y, and we never did recover it. Some animals just aren't easy to kill..

Yes I'm not saying your are. It's hard to read what people are thinking over text. I have also heart shot deer and have had them run 300-400 yards. Actually heart shot a deer once and it ran all the way across the field. 350 yards wide then try to swim the river and die in said river.
As stated earlier I was expecting the Barnes to stay together for a better wound channel. I've never used monolithics before and probably won't be using them again or at least not anytime soon.

 

[jakeSCH]

Wrong again. The petals had to shear off on entrance. It literally enters the flank and stopped on the off side shoulder. It penciled through the liver and one lung.

Not trying to be argumentative either, but one lung is not "lungs". When i read your post, I assumed that it was a single lung shot. The pressure in the chest cavity did not drop meaning the second lung did not collapse. My point was even if the bullet had a 50% increase in diameter and did not shear the petals...would the result have been much different? Is really an 1/8" larger diameter the difference? It is very well possibly, but to me the real difference is understanding the mechanics of how a mono metal bullet kills verses a lead bullet.

You had 2 to 3 feet of penetration from the flank to the shoulder, that is exactly what the bullet is designed to do.

I do agree, that most likely with your traditional lead bullets and the same shot taken...deer would have not made it to the fence.

 

[Bret GRAVELINE Graveline]

That response is certianly dissapointing, I would ask who you talked too, not that it matters but I will bet whomever it was is not a user, and likely not even a hunter but rather a enginer, ( one of those types that likes to say but it worked on paper ) nobody in the Barnes family would have taken your concerns lightly, I suggest you not give up to quickly, I harvested my first deer in 71, I've been shooting a 257 ACK for 40 plus years, and have been running Barnes for about 25 of those, Shooting 8 different calibers in 11 rifles, 22 to 416 with velocity running 2700 to 3600 fps, ranges measured in feet to over 700 yds, I don't know the exact number but I've harvested over 100 head of big game with x bullets with 257 ACK being my favorite, although i prefer the 115 gr over the 100, there is another way to look at this incident, you may have harvested this buck because you were using Barnes bullets, not despite them, perhaps had you been using another bullet there is a chance you might not have recovered the animal at all, some animals just don't die when we want them too, I've had all makes of bullets fail at on point or another, I've had more 1 shot drop in they're track kills with Barnes than any other, I feel that some of these animals I collected only because I was shooting a x bullet, I haven't always made the perfect shot, I would imagine this experience would sour my feelings towards any bullet I was using on any animal let alone that one, I would be most proud of that animal, congratulations,

 

[lee31]

Not trying to be argumentative either, but one lung is not "lungs". When i read your post, I assumed that it was a single lung shot. The pressure in the chest cavity did not drop meaning the second lung did not collapse. My point was even if the bullet had a 50% increase in diameter and did not shear the petals...would the result have been much different? Is really an 1/8" larger diameter the difference? It is very well possibly, but to me the real difference is understand the mechanics of how a mono metal bullet kills verses a lead bullet.

You had 2 to 3 feet of penetration from the flank to the shoulder, that is exactly what the bullet is designed to do.

I do agree, that most likely with your traditional lead bullets and the same shot taken...deer would have not made it to the fence.

Yeah it is what it is. The deer is dead and in my freezer. Will Barnes be my first choice going forward? Nope, Depending on what bullet availability is I'm hoping to be shooting accubonds or Berger's. I'll leave the Barnes on my reloading bench and maybe try them out again down the road.

 

[338 dude]

96.6 grains on my chargemaster. I'm assuming it's likely the petals sheared off.

They definitely sheared off you have the picture to prove it

 

[338 dude]

Yeah it is what it is. The deer is dead and in my freezer. Will Barnes be my first choice going forward? Nope, Depending on what bullet availability is I'm hoping to be shooting accubonds or Berger's. I'll leave the Barnes on my reloading bench and maybe try them out again down the road.

My favorite projectile is a berger, but I would not count on it going from one end to the other of an animal at all that's not how they were designed

 

[338 dude]

Well you'd be wrong. It penciled through the liver and one lung. How the heck would you think it could it not hit any vitals on a quartering away shot when it enters the flank and comes to rest in the shoulder??? The bullet had to fall apart within the first couple inches of hitting the deer.

Lung and liver are vitals but because of the angle you only got half of the vitals and not the main pump

 

[338 dude]

I've killed probably a thousand whitetail deer in my life, and you think I'm being antagonistic, but I'm not. I believe what you are saying. I'm serious when I say that some animals just have a whole lot more determination than others. I've shot hundreds of deer that folded like a lawn chair the second I touched the trigger, but I've also seen dozens hit just as well, and completely dead on their feet with their hearts absolutely liquefied, run hundreds of yards. My buddy Bill, (338 Dude) shot a coyote a week or so ago, and passed a 140gr berger from brisket to butthole, cut off about 4" of tail and a blood trail that looked like you hit the carotid artery of an elephant for probably 400y, and we never did recover it. Some animals just aren't easy to kill..

What I was impressed the most with this is my first experience of actually seeing the pink mist and walking out in the field we couldn't find any sign at first because we were in the wrong spot I assumed I missed walking back to our set I saw a 4 foot circle of blood on the ground and a piece of tail then the blood trail from there you've already been told the results

 

[Northkill]

Yeah it is what it is. The deer is dead and in my freezer. Will Barnes be my first choice going forward? Nope, Depending on what bullet availability is I'm hoping to be shooting accubonds or Berger's. I'll leave the Barnes on my reloading bench and maybe try them out again down the road.

Wierd stuff happens in the deer woods for sure. I can sympathize with the inexplicable. This is a small sample size, but I've been experimenting and evaluating some of these things myself. This year my two sons both did shots in the rear ham of two different deer - one by necessity to put a wounded deer down just before it disappeared, and the other was on a deer drive when the deer spun just as he pulled the trigger. Both were about 200 +/- yds. The smaller deer was with the 7-LRM and 180 Berger Hybrids running near 3K. Shot centered on the rear ham (it was moving, so hard to center between). The big 180 only made it to the gut and needed finished off later. The other deer was hit with the 6.5 Sherman Max pushing 123 Hammers at 3,500. That little pill took itself through the rear ham and exited out at the shoulder - and this deer was bigger. Shot another one last evening with the same rifle and the little 123 pushed almost the full length of the deer on a big doe - exited out the rear body cavity and sheared through part of the one rear ham while taking out the heart up front. Again, range was +/- 200 yds.

The shape of the petal-less shank does make a difference on the tissue displacement as it drives through. Not sure how that Barnes would compare to other big-name monos. Barnes are designed and advertised for their expanded cutting petals, not necessarily for shedding them, so may not be engineered for petal-less performance..? (just theory)

Our deer are incredibly hardy. The will to live is extreme. How can we get that tough? I've had great results with Bergers and some not so great. I think you'll find that with any bullet. It's impossible to know what the bullet was thinking when it decides to do something out of character.

 

[7070yshot]

I recently bought some 100 grain Barnes TTSX for my 257 Roberts AI. I have heard how tough and indestructible these bullets are. Well I through a load together for the Wisconsin gun deer season. Load was 50 grains of RL17 and a CCI200 and I was getting 3294fps with a ES of 7 over 5 shots and just under 1MOA. I thought this would be a great load where my shots would range between 50-300 yards. Well I got my opportunity on a good buck on the last Saturday evening of the season.
The buck quartering away at 170 yards away in a cut cornfield just about to go into the woods. I ended up shooting him in the flank and was expecting bullet would come out either in front of the off side shoulder or would end up coming to rest right in his shoulder. The buck hunched up and took off into the woods. I waited 1 hour and went to look for blood. I found a little blood which was very spotty at best. After about 75 yards of tracking I reached our line fence and head something take off. I backed out and called the neighbors.
They said they'd be doing a deer drive in the morning and I was more than welcome to come along. Fast forward to the next day 16 hours later to be exact I caught up to the buck on the drive and had to finish him off. While I was cutting up the deer Tuesday night I found my bullet it had come to rest right under his off side shoulder blade. All the pedals had sheared off or the tip busted one or the other. I was astonished that this would happen. And now know why the deer was still alive as it had just left a 1/4 inch wound channel through the deer.
So I decided to email Barnes and their reply was that I'm probably shooting these bullets to fast and that they dont test bullets past 3000fps. They also told me my impact velocity was probably around 2950fps. And pretty much told me tough luck. I've shot Nosler accubonds outt my 25-06 at faster muzzle velocity than the Barnes and have never had a experience like this. So I'm just giving a heads up to some of you that are running big magnums at higher velocities than I'm running. You might run into this problem. Hopefully not but I will be switching back to accubonds if I can find them or Berger 133's.

I'd say 50% bullet 50% shot placement. I know that hurts a little but with a 1moa gun I would have gone for the neck. Disruptive to all systems, air, blood, nervous system.

I do the same type of velocity with a 6mm Creedmoor. Non issue. I know that's anecdotal but it's real.

 

[blackbrush1]

Sample of one is not statistically valuable. I shot one at 80yds from stem to stern with a 257 Bee clocked at 3600fps. DRT. Bullet was recovered on the inside of a ham. All petals were intact. Sample of one.

 

[Bluebullet96]

If he would have been broad side the petals that broke off would have been in his lungs and not somewhere in his flank. Chalk it up to bad shot placement

 

[Reloader]

You should see the damage of that same pill at 3700 in the Wby. I have had what you describe happen as far as petals blowing off and poking a tiny hole. Luckily lungs were hit and the sparse trail was only 150yds. I've had some others go a decent ways with them as well from what I assume is a similar issue. I've learned to just keep it broadside and on bone. My worst 100gr Barnes failure was last year on a dandy buck at 200yds. Same deal, shot him quartering hard away and had confidence it would come out the far side. That bullet deflected off the ham bone and was underneath the hide by his testicles. I luckily was able to catch up to him about an hour later and put him down. Light fast Barnes are iffy on raking shots contrary to what BS you'll read on the net. Broadside bone hits are awesome with them however. I shot a nice 10 a couple weeks back with a 100 ttsx at 3300, he simply folded with a shoulder shot at 100yds.

 

[tomsd]

I recently bought some 100 grain Barnes TTSX for my 257 Roberts AI. I have heard how tough and indestructible these bullets are. Well I through a load together for the Wisconsin gun deer season. Load was 50 grains of RL17 and a CCI200 and I was getting 3294fps with a ES of 7 over 5 shots and just under 1MOA. I thought this would be a great load where my shots would range between 50-300 yards. Well I got my opportunity on a good buck on the last Saturday evening of the season.
The buck quartering away at 170 yards away in a cut cornfield just about to go into the woods. I ended up shooting him in the flank and was expecting bullet would come out either in front of the off side shoulder or would end up coming to rest right in his shoulder. The buck hunched up and took off into the woods. I waited 1 hour and went to look for blood. I found a little blood which was very spotty at best. After about 75 yards of tracking I reached our line fence and head something take off. I backed out and called the neighbors.
They said they'd be doing a deer drive in the morning and I was more than welcome to come along. Fast forward to the next day 16 hours later to be exact I caught up to the buck on the drive and had to finish him off. While I was cutting up the deer Tuesday night I found my bullet it had come to rest right under his off side shoulder blade. All the pedals had sheared off or the tip busted one or the other. I was astonished that this would happen. And now know why the deer was still alive as it had just left a 1/4 inch wound channel through the deer.
So I decided to email Barnes and their reply was that I'm probably shooting these bullets to fast and that they dont test bullets past 3000fps. They also told me my impact velocity was probably around 2950fps. And pretty much told me tough luck. I've shot Nosler accubonds outt my 25-06 at faster muzzle velocity than the Barnes and have never had a experience like this. So I'm just giving a heads up to some of you that are running big magnums at higher velocities than I'm running. You might run into this problem. Hopefully not but I will be switching back to accubonds if I can find them or Berger 133's.

Sort of like when Weatherby first came out - too fast for the bullets at the time.