.308 load development question

[GuroChris]

The main reason I'm using IMR 4064 is that it works pretty well in several rifles. I'm not married to it and am open to trying other powders. I know most guys like Varget but that stuff is like hens teeth around here.

In the spirit of learning something I'll listen to the advice I get, verify its validity with other sources ( I remember Reagan saying something like that in the 80's) then experiment. I'm just barely smart enough to know I don't know everything....lol

 

[YZ-80]

Well, lots of good advice from the guys. Certainly nothing wrong with trying IMR 4064 here. Personally, I've had great luck with IMR 4895 and even better luck with Varget, which I know is hard to find. I don't know if you mentioned you barrel length and twist rate? Anyway, I'm lucky that my Savage FCP-SR is such a great shooter, I guess. Great accuracy with a 168 Matchking @ 42 grains of IMR 4064 and phenomenal accuracy (See 5-shot pic) with a 42 grain charge of Varget under a 168 ELD-M (which you might want to consider). Seating depth? Forgive the gross oversimplification but like almost all of my rifles - .020 off, period. Like another poster said above. Anyway, I hope you get her dialed in.

 

[ajkellerusmc]

What was the range of your test's?

 

[30BR]

The main reason I'm using IMR 4064 is that it works pretty well in several rifles. I'm not married to it and am open to trying other powders. I know most guys like Varget but that stuff is like hens teeth around here.

In the spirit of learning something I'll listen to the advice I get, verify its validity with other sources ( I remember Reagan saying something like that in the 80's) then experiment. I'm just barely smart enough to know I don't know everything....lol

Back in the day, 4064 was THE powder for 308. Once Varget came out, it replaced 4064 on the firing line 100% in 2 years. (I was club pres and match director for Santa Margarita gun club on Camp Pendleton for a few years back when 308's ruled the roost. We had more than a dozen Masters and High Masters, many of whom were also U. S. Palma Team members and NRA record holders. At the range you were talking about, they all shot that load, and remember, rapid fire stages are magazine length. Trust me, it will work.

 

[GuroChris]

What was the range of your test's?

100m measured by Sig Kilo 2200MR laser range finder.

 

[GuroChris]

Well, lots of good advice from the guys. Certainly nothing wrong with trying IMR 4064 here. Personally, I've had great luck with IMR 4895 and even better luck with Varget, which I know is hard to find. I don't know if you mentioned you barrel length and twist rate? Anyway, I'm lucky that my Savage FCP-SR is such a great shooter, I guess. Great accuracy with a 168 Matchking @ 42 grains of IMR 4064 and phenomenal accuracy (See 5-shot pic) with a 42 grain charge of Varget under a 168 ELD-M (which you might want to consider). Seating depth? Forgive the gross oversimplification but like almost all of my rifles - .020 off, period. Like another poster said above. Anyway, I hope you get her dialed in.
View attachment 218475

That's a fine example if where I'd like to end up. I'm not looking at my notes but if I remember right, 20 thou off the lands puts me just longer than mag length, so that isn't ideal for me. That's why I followed some earlier advice and loaded up several sets of ammo at 10 thou shorter intervals starting at mag length. Hope it works. I'll find out next week.

 

[YZ-80]

That's a fine example if where I'd like to end up. I'm not looking at my notes but if I remember right, 20 thou off the lands puts me just longer than mag length, so that isn't ideal for me. That's why I followed some earlier advice and loaded up several sets of ammo at 10 thou shorter intervals starting at mag

That sounds like a good approach. I've had to do that on a couple of occasions too.
The .308 won't let you down.

 

[Doom2]

Back in the day, 4064 was THE powder for 308. Once Varget came out, it replaced 4064 on the firing line 100% in 2 years. (I was club pres and match director for Santa Margarita gun club on Camp Pendleton for a few years back when 308's ruled the roost. We had more than a dozen Masters and High Masters, many of whom were also U. S. Palma Team members and NRA record holders. At the range you were talking about, they all shot that load, and remember, rapid fire stages are magazine length. Trust me, it will work.

Wasn't picking on Varget. Varget works well, and my 308 was broken in with it. But it isn't worth crap when you can't get it. ADI has had issue after issue with delivery of most of their powders for at least the last 8 years. The issues are not just in this country either.

IMR 4064 may be marginally less accurate but most shooters will seldom see a difference. There's s a good chance that in the 43gr range in a factory Remington that the charge weight of 4064 will be the same or very close to Varget.

 

[Doom2]

That's a fine example if where I'd like to end up. I'm not looking at my notes but if I remember right, 20 thou off the lands puts me just longer than mag length, so that isn't ideal for me. That's why I followed some earlier advice and loaded up several sets of ammo at 10 thou shorter intervals starting at mag length. Hope it works. I'll find out next week.

Is this a Remington factory barrel? I ask because every factory 308 I've come across has a long throat. In my current 308 the boattail of the 168 is barely in the case with the bullet touching the lands!

 

[GuroChris]

Is this a Remington factory barrel? I ask because every factory 308 I've come across has a long throat. In my current 308 the boattail of the 168 is barely in the case with the bullet touching the lands!

Yup, factory varmint barrel with a 12 twist. Like I said I don't have my notes on me, I'm just going off of a sometimes flawed short term memory. I'll have to check later. I have the rifle and kit packed up for a work trip but where I'm going I'll have access to a really good 1200yd range, not that I'll shoot that far.

But, I have several rounds of ammo to shoot groups at 42.2 grains and hopefully verify that decent group.

I also have 15 rounds loaded at 43.2 grains but with seating depths changing by 10 thou increments for a range of 50 thou.

Then I have 10 more rounds for charge weight testing from 43.5 grains to 45.3 grains in .2 grain increments to test the higher end of the charge weights in the manual, which if i remember right tops out at 45.9 for a compressed load.

So, I'm going to try several bits of advice from the thread. And, while I'm on the road I'm going to stop at a couple of spots to try and find some Varget.

 

[Scott E Ames]

If you want to try an easier to find powder, my 308 shoots IMR 8208 XBR a little better than Varget but all shoot well. Agree that trying to find Varget is like trying to find Retumbo!

 

[Doom2]

If you want to try an easier to find powder, my 308 shoots IMR 8208 XBR a little better than Varget but all shoot well. Agree that trying to find Varget is like trying to find Retumbo!

Yep, another good powder and one I use but availability sucks right now (ADI). Since I shoot only 223 and 308 I use it in 223.

 

[Ace Quackhunter]

Actually that thing shot really well for a long time. I have about 1500 rounds through it now. The factory ammo I was using was FGGM 168 smk, Federal Premium Tactical Bonded Tip 168. Which incidentally had the same point of impact all the way out to 400. I also shot well with Military Mk 316 Mod 0 special long range with 175smk bullet.

Standard accuracy is between .5 and .75 MOA with those loads. I'm just nearing the end of my supplies of factory ammo so I've decided to jump back into reloading to get good results. My plan for the rifle when the barrel is totally spent is to do something similar to you, get the action squared up and have it made into a switch barrel. "because I can, its good for the local business and 'Murica"

Right now I'm working on developing reloading techniques to squeeze the most out of the rest of the barrel life that way when I get it all worked on I can really start shooting bughole groups. That's why I'm picking everyone's brain now.

In the past most of the 308 rifles that I have owned have been .5 MOA or better. That was a surprise when I could not get the Remington to that or better. If it does not shoot well when I get back in January or February I have a couple of barrel blanks that I can try. If not I will be looking to sell or trade in the Spring.
Ace

 

[rustyshackleford]

Why is it that when someone wants a little help with evaluating a load test someone has to suggest changing powder to this or that, or switching to SRP, or changing the bullet when the powder they are using is KNOWN to be one of the more suitable powders, the bullet suitable and the primer proven for the cartridge?

Why doesn't everyone just shoot varget in lapua brass with CCIBR2's? It's hard to imagine but sometimes a rifle likes RL-15, H4895, VV, XBR8208, and on and on perform better for a given rifle. Primers are the same way. He never said he had 25 lbs of 4064 or 25k GMM primers guy