.308 load development question

[dan1953]

Don't get stuck on speed or the other complications like SD. The .308 isn't a speed demon to start with. I chase groups till I get what I like. Rarely do I worry about the speed unless I'm planning on heading west and want to look up ballistic data to get me on paper at my self defined max ranges. I love 4064 in my .308 and it's one of my most neglected powders. Depending on barrel temperatures your groups do odd things. I try to shoot 3 shot groups. I happen to have a great shooting hunting rig that I decided to run a full 10 round magazine through as fast as I could just to see what happens. First pic is 3 @100. Last pic is 10@100 those are 1/2" square grids. Either an ok 5 round group and 5 missed the paper or a great 10 round group imho! Sierra 155 grain mk IMR 4064 Winchester brass and CCI BR2 match to light it!

I see at least 6 holes there, nice 10 shot group!

 

[sea2summit]

ES and SD off a five shot string is like filling your car at a gas station, driving down the block to the next one, filling again and trying to estimate your mileage. It doesn't make much since statistically.

How do you normally shoot? How does the rifle normally shoot? Even the initial node test target it looks like there's a few flyers that don't make a lot of sense out of a quality setup/range session in my mind.

 

[RAGGED EDGE]

If you have not, I would like to suggest trying CFE-223 in your .308. Works wonders in mine.

 

[RMorris]

Try varget.
The 308 is so well-known, the 4064 load pre-dated the Varget load, but has been eclipsed by it for most people. I found it more consistent, and most people find an accuracy note between 43 and 44 grains.

 

[del2les]

Chris, I understand your frustration with trying to get your Remington to shoot. I had the same issues with my own and while I tossed everything and was ready to sell it and let someone else worry with it. I decided to take mine to local gunsmith and let him take a look. The first thing we found was the muzzle crown not be concentric and the bolt lugs only making contact on one lug. Since I do like the rifle and I have had 308 rifles in the past that would shoot I am going to rebuild it. The barrel will removed and re-crowned, cut off one to two threads at the chamber and re-cut chamber with custom match reamer. Replace recoil lug, square receiver, lap raceway, re-cut bolt lugs and bed the action into the stock. "Why" you ask? Because I can. It's good for my local guy, it's good for the vendors, it's good for me and good for the Ole USA. So sometime in early next year I will be at the range, knowing the 308 should be able to shoot and I will find out, if I will sell it of keep it. I have enclosed a few photos of my efforts in trying to work up a load before the rebuild.
Ace

Before we waste time and components developing a load for any factory rifle, we check all these and a few others. I've lost count of the number of bad crowns, bad bedding, single lug contact, poor triggers, rough rifling, etc, etc, and I have bought a few used "bad apples" at discount prices only to have them turn in 1/2 MOA groups after a couple of mods or so.

 

[TAZMAN]

I don't post a lot here but I have tried many powders and always end up back at Varget. 4064 is also good but Varget edges it on the rifles I have tested. It's always fun to try new things though to learn velocities and poi shifts. I run the 178 A-Max at 2780fps.

I really want to try RL26 even though they say it won't work. It propels a 208 a-max out of my 30-06 lapua brass at 2820-2840fps depending on primer out of a 22 inch barrel. The weird thing is it's more of a push instead of a snap on recoil but that's just my rifle. Others may see different results.

 

[Doom2]

Why is it that when someone wants a little help with evaluating a load test someone has to suggest changing powder to this or that, or switching to SRP, or changing the bullet when the powder they are using is KNOWN to be one of the more suitable powders, the bullet suitable and the primer proven for the cartridge?

 

[JMW67]

I have owned many 308 win rifles custom and factory most shot varget the last one would not at all no matter what I tried some barrels just dont like a certain powder or bullet I do agree he is using a suitable powder and bullet but the barrel may not like it as much as some thing else

 

[Scott E Ames]

My 308 loves IMR 4064, 43.5 grains and 168 gr. Bergers. You are on the right track. Try to only change 1 thing at a time. Usually I find it easier to get my optimum seating depth first before looking for the magic charge weight.

 

[30BR]

Why is it that when someone wants a little help with evaluating a load test someone has to suggest changing powder to this or that, or switching to SRP, or changing the bullet when the powder they are using is KNOWN to be one of the more suitable powders, the bullet suitable and the primer proven for the cartridge?

Because, in this case the combo of 308, 168, Varget has been virtually standardized for 20 years, and it should result in a better experience with very little development. The poster gave no indication he was wedded to his current powder.
Good faith efforts to help others should not be denigrated.

 

[TAZMAN]

Actually, most of us encourage safe experimentation. We all have a pet load but sometimes its good to get a fresh perspective but it's also good to know what others are having great success with as a controlled variable. There are new powder and bullets coming on line all the time. Sometimes we have to get out of our comfort zone.

 

[GuroChris]

Chris, I understand your frustration with trying to get your Remington to shoot. I had the same issues with my own and while I tossed everything and was ready to sell it and let someone else worry with it. I decided to take mine to local gunsmith and let him take a look. The first thing we found was the muzzle crown not be concentric and the bolt lugs only making contact on one lug. Since I do like the rifle and I have had 308 rifles in the past that would shoot I am going to rebuild it. The barrel will removed and re-crowned, cut off one to two threads at the chamber and re-cut chamber with custom match reamer. Replace recoil lug, square receiver, lap raceway, re-cut bolt lugs and bed the action into the stock. "Why" you ask? Because I can. It's good for my local guy, it's good for the vendors, it's good for me and good for the Ole USA. So sometime in early next year I will be at the range, knowing the 308 should be able to shoot and I will find out, if I will sell it of keep it. I have enclosed a few photos of my efforts in trying to work up a load before the rebuild.
Ace

Actually that thing shot really well for a long time. I have about 1500 rounds through it now. The factory ammo I was using was FGGM 168 smk, Federal Premium Tactical Bonded Tip 168. Which incidentally had the same point of impact all the way out to 400. I also shot well with Military Mk 316 Mod 0 special long range with 175smk bullet.

Standard accuracy is between .5 and .75 MOA with those loads. I'm just nearing the end of my supplies of factory ammo so I've decided to jump back into reloading to get good results. My plan for the rifle when the barrel is totally spent is to do something similar to you, get the action squared up and have it made into a switch barrel. "because I can, its good for the local business and 'Murica"

Right now I'm working on developing reloading techniques to squeeze the most out of the rest of the barrel life that way when I get it all worked on I can really start shooting bughole groups. That's why I'm picking everyone's brain now.

 

[GuroChris]

Can you not try another powder or primer? With ball powder I've seen magnum primers turn your bad group into your good group and keep the low ES/SD

I actually have some Magnum primers. I'll give it a shot.

 

[GuroChris]

I'd also tweek the seating depth on that load of 43.2.

just loaded some more of that charge and seated the bullets 10 thou deeper for 5 loads totaling 50 thou range of seating depth. just have to wait to shoot till next week.