.308 / 165 grn Sierra Game Changer at 3,200 FPS on Deer?

[Mike Matteson]

I have seen 270 with 130gr Sierra take deer for years. The best bullet in my estimation. I use a 165gr Nosler Accubonds @3300 fps in my 308 Norma Mag (because there wasn't any 165 gr Sierra). They are fine for hunting. You will have no problem reaching 500 yds with a little elevation. All you can do is shot and look over the deer afterwards to see what and how the bullet did. Shorter ranges are bigger problems with the bullet coming apart due to the velocity and that goes for most bullets. Longer ranges the bullet may not open up. So dam if you do and dam if yo don't. The 308 Norma Mag I use I have taken 7 elk and finish off 3 other wounded elk. Most were one shot kills. Bottom line is shot placement with most rifles will do a fine job of killing the animal quickly. You will have to see how it dose. I always look over the animal at the time skinning out to see how the bullet did. If I don't like what I see I change. When I am with other people I look over what they shot and how the bullet reacted with their animals. Fine out what they are using. That will your best guide. Bottom line it looks like you have found a loading the matches your rifle, and it like it and that biggest thing.
Let us know how the bullet does. Pictures would better too. Good luck.

 

[Quintus]

No such thing as over-kill. There is killed or not killed. These will put deer in the 'killed' column. They may cause a little more damage than some of the harder bullets out to about 400 yards, but they will get it done up close. they act alot like the modern or newer Ballistic Tip hunting. On a broadside shot you may get a baseball sized exit. If you shoot a shoulder, you will lose most of the off shoulder. Anything anterior to the diaphragm will result in quick death.

 

[Goldengun]

You could shoot a milk shake out of a 300wm and kill deer. I think those will work just fine.

 

[David Emerson]

If you want to take any steaks home stay off the shoulders. I would feel better if you were using the lead tip 165 sierra. I am afraid 3200 will be too much for it. I know what sierra says. 308 or 06 probably fine.

 

[Buckys]

No experience with the Game Changer.

I like to use my 270WBY for deer hunting and prefer to use at least Accubonds for the same, exactly for the reason behind the OP's original question.

I will also carry ammunition that is more suitable for shots beyond 500yds. i.e., expand well at lesser velocities. I would likely forego a shot at a big deer at such ranges, though, which is a personal decision.

SST's typically shoot well for me for those applications. I would certainly use these at shorter ranges when shooting heavy for caliber - e.g., 162gr SST from a 7mm RM.

 

[Scott E Ames]

Sounds like you have a perfect setup. Don't ever hear anyone say OVERDEAD because it makes no sense, neither does OVERKILL. Shoot what you would like to shoot based on your knowledge and experience.

 

[112Savage]

I only have experience with the 130gr 6.5mm Gamechanger. I will say in apples to apples comparison meaning distance, shot placement, and size of whitetail doe the gamechanger opens much faster than the 130gr HPBT Gameking. The Gamechanger dropped 3 deer on the spot while the gameking 2 deer and 1 pronghorn have run 30-70 yds. Both bullets gave exit wounds with the gamechanger's being two to three times the size (about 1.5-2") of the HPBT. Honestly I prefer the gamechanger but the HPBT might be nicer if I was going after larger bodied deer.

Both bullets were shot out of a suppressed 6.5 Creedmoor with below max load of RL16 going 2900fps all deer were shot at <120yds. I think that the 30cal 165gr going 3200fps is going to come apart but I wouldn't worry too much because the deer will be dead if you hit it correctly. Is that overkill? I believe Craig Boddington says something like "I find the concept of overkill to be much harder to grasp than its opposite"

 

[Lenny Foffa]

I think we need to change the term OVERKILL, to "More Powerful than really Needed" As a kid , I worked in a big gun shop, and there was always the first time rifle owners coming back into the store , after the hunt to Cry and Complain that Big Magnum they HAD to have , made them loose the deer!!! They shot their 5 or 6 rounds to sight the new rifle in; the group was 6 or 7 inches at 100yards. "That's good enough for Deer, and ammo is really expensive " So the gut shot deer was supposed to die at once, because it was shot with a Big Magnum!!!!!!! So IMHO, I say Shoot the Rifle /Scope combo you are really , really accurate with, and not apologize for the Caliber or the Load!! Sight in with the exact load you will be hunting with. Shoot several times before the hunt . Accuracy and Precision are everything. By all means , Please enjoy the Hunt.

 

[Huggy]

I have no experience with the Game Changer in game, because I haven't been able to make an accurate load with any of them yet. I WANT to use them on deer, but haven't found the proper technique to get MOA accuracy from them yet. If you have any secrets on loading them accurately, I am interested in learning the technique.

You have to remember that every gun is different and yours just might not "like" that particular projo, no matter what you try to fix it.
Move on to another bullet style, weight, manufacturer until you get that Goldilocks fit of "Just Right" for YOUR gun.
But before condemning the projo in question, make sure all gun/scope/ring screws are tightened to the appropriate torque per the manufacturer's specifications, your barrel is either perfectly free-floated OR has the appropriate amount of barrel/stock touching/interference (some gun/barrel combinations actually need some touching, my Winchester Model 70 in .30-06 being a perfect example. It shoots 3/8ths inch groups all day long with a homegrown load) that you can only determine after MUCH experimentation and expenditure of bullets/powder/primers (YIKES) and time on the range.
Among the myriad of things to tinker with is the leade in barrel and how much "jump" you want to use or NOT use. This is also something that is non-specific and only determined after experimentation as each gun is different.
And don't forget one of the MOST important aspects of searching for Goldilocks, that being the muzzle crown.
Look VERY carefully for any kind of aberration to the muzzle and, if possible, have a qualified and experienced gunsmith crown or re-crown the muzzle to eliminate that part. And while the gunsmith is checking that out, ask him to look at the interior of the length of the barrel for excessive leading or copper deposits using a borescope. Either/both can raise havoc with accuracy but like some other aspects, this can only be determined by using the correct equipment.
You can buy a decent borescope these days but as with so many other things, you get what you pay for. Better to buy once/cry once and get a QUALITY borescope as long as your budget (and wife-unit) will support it.
Good luck in your quest, Pardner. Unfortunately for the novice shooter (not implying YOU are, so no offense intended, Sir) all those things I mention above can be daunting to consider.
But taking the time to work up a good load and ensuring your rifle is in top notch condition is very rewarding.
Some find the journey to extract the maximum accuracy a real PITA, but assuming you don't have a factory lemon, the journey is fun and the knowledge you acquire will help you for the rest of your hunting and shooting career.
I wish you the best of Luck and Good Hunting, Pardner!

 

[asd9055]

I think we need to change the term OVERKILL, to "More Powerful than really Needed" As a kid , I worked in a big gun shop, and there was always the first time rifle owners coming back into the store , after the hunt to Cry and Complain that Big Magnum they HAD to have , made them loose the deer!!! They shot their 5 or 6 rounds to sight the new rifle in; the group was 6 or 7 inches at 100yards. "That's good enough for Deer, and ammo is really expensive " So the gut shot deer was supposed to die at once, because it was shot with a Big Magnum!!!!!!! So IMHO, I say Shoot the Rifle /Scope combo you are really , really accurate with, and not apologize for the Caliber or the Load!! Sight in with the exact load you will be hunting with. Shoot several times before the hunt . Accuracy and Precision are everything. By all means , Please enjoy the Hunt.

When I was in Africa, my PH told me that for meat hunts, antelope deer size game, they use 22-250 and head shots.
Shot place is more important than caliber. But there is no such thing as overkill...dead is dead...dead right there (DRT) is even better

 

[bdyal1972]

Just wondering if anyone had real world experience on game at higher velocity. Wondering how it would hold together at shorter ranges. I also have the same Sako rifle in .308 and it shoots these same 165 Game Changers into nice groups at just under 2,700 FPS. I know the .308 will be great in 95% of the shot opportunities, but I like the extra range of the 300 WM just in case a longer shot presents itself.

I know this combo (165 grn @ 3,200 FPS) could be overkill in most situations. However, last year I shot a nice deer with my .308 at about 175 yards using a 150 TTSX at 2,800 FPS. Deer was uphill, died quickly, and everything worked out great. The day before, we spotted a even nicer buck across a canyon at 450 yards. I had the crosshairs on him for awhile, but didn't pull the trigger. If the shot didn't anchor him, he could (very likely) have gone down into a very steep canyon and not be recoverable. I would have taken the shot if I had my 300 WM with the 165 Sierra at 3,200 FPS.

You may consider it overkill, I consider it insurance!

Plan for the worst!!!

 

[Spd522]

I used to use Sierras in my 300 WM. The accuracy was there but bullet performance wasn't. I tried 200, 180, and 150 gr offerings. The 200s didn't have reliable expansion at any distance, and the 150s acted more like a varmint bullet. I shot a deer in the shoulder at 406 yds. I found shrapnel and pieces of the 150gr up into the neck and down along the ribs. The bullet should have stayed together at that distance. The 180s were satisfactory but I got better on target performance with equal accuracy from Nosler BT and even original Barnes X bullets. Sierras make great target bullets but I don't have much faith in their hunting bullets. The Nosler and Sierra of the same weight shot same POA/POI with the same charge weight, but the Nosler always did it's job on deer. I have pretty much settled on the 165 gr Barnes TSX bullets for the 300 WM for all hunting and not having to load specific ammo for each critter.

Worked up a great load in my Sako 85 Finnlight 300 Win Mag with the 165 grain Sierra Game Changer. 4 shots in basically the same hole at 100 yards and chronographed at 3,200 FPS.

Have a deer hunt in Utah next month. Any experience with these bullets on deer at a similar velocity?

 

[Nomosendero]

I have used a lot of Sierra bullets and many are soft but I have not used the Gamechanger, so I can't comment on that bullet, I plan on changing that.

 

[257WTBY]

stay off the shoulder and you will be fine. Center the shoulder and it will be wasting a front shoulder. 300 will kill deer is it to much not mine to say but I will say this every deer ive shot at with my 300 WTBY never moved out of its tracks...