If you look at cutaway's of the Hornady ELD-X and their ELD-M, it seems the Match has a thinner jacket. What you see at the tip doesn't necessary correlate as it progresses rearward.
Sierra matchking performance on game
- Thread starter Hunt_4life
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Just a word of caution. While I will not get into this debate regarding the suitability of match ammo for hunting big game since I for one don't believe in it, nor do any of the manufacturers seem to recommend it. Check your individual states big game regulations before going hunting with target/match ammo. Here in Wisconsin, and I imagine most other states it is illegal to use match ammo when hunting deer or Elk. If you were to get caught, it would most likely cost you your rifle, a hefty fine and loss of hunting privileges for several years.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
That ^^^^^^^^ is the first time I have ever heard of a prohibition on match ammo for hunting. I have heard of rules that prohibit "non expanding" bullets but never a rule against the use of match bullets or ammo.
The rules, shown here do not specifically say match ammo,
AMMUNITION. No person may: (a) Use, possess, or have under control of any of the following while hunting: 1. Shot shells containing shot larger than T, except that shot shells containing shot not larger than F may be used when hunting migratory birds.2. Any tracer or incendiary ammunition that is not a distress flare.3. Any bullet, arrow, or bolt that is designed or modified to explode or deliver poisons or drugs.(b) Hunt a game bird with any ammunition other than an arrow, bolt, or shot shell that consists of more than one projectile.(c) Hunt a deer, bear, or elk with any ammunition other than an arrow, bolt, or bullet that is a single projectile of an expanding design.(d) Do any of the following while hunting waterfowl, snipe, rails, moorhens, or coot within any areas of the state, or mourning doves on lands which are under the management, supervision and control of the department: 1. Take, catch, kill or pursue waterfowl, mourning doves, snipe, rails, moorhens, or coot with any shot, either in shot shells or as loose shot for muzzle-loading, other than non-toxic shot.2. Possess any shot shell or muzzle-loading firearm loaded with any material other than non-toxic shot.
I don't know about you, but match ammo is not specifically expanding design. I'm not sure about you but I am not going to argue with the DNR or the court system or spend a lot of money on lawyers to fight this battle. Much cheaper to simply use hunting ammo with an expanding design, which are available on down to the minimum legal caliber of .22. I know of people who use M193 and M855 for deer hunting. Both are illegal since neither are of expanding design. The M855 (62 gr green tip) is also steel core and is also designated as armor piercing. They have been warned of the implications and like most men don't listen to a woman. It will be their loss, not mine. I'm using a 30-06 this year with 165gr Nosler Partitions. 98% of the deer I shoot only take one shot and drop in place never to move on their own again.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
With all due respect - a regulation that requires the use of an "expanding design" projectile is not even close to "prohibiting match ammo". Military style "hardball" ammo is certainly not considered match ammo and is prohibited in many places for hunting because it fits the non-expanding category.
In an older Hornady manual it stated that their 162gr A-Max match bullet was good for taking thin skinned large game animals. I used them accordingly for hunting whitetails with a 7STW. Impacts near and far were immediately fatal.
BTW - I don't know a single happily married man that doesn't listen to a woman.
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It's up to you and the game warden who checks you. I personally don't care what you do. Happily married men have nothing to do with any of this. Try being a female rifle, pistol or hunter safety instructor and see how many men really pay attention. All they are in your class for is to get their ticket punched for whatever reason and continue on their merry way doing whatever it was they did before. I've been doing this for many years and because of this, as well as them being disruptive influences and arguing during class, I pretty much have given up on trying to teach men. I have to admit that there are a few that do pay attention, but they are few and far in between.With all due respect - a regulation that requires the use of an "expanding design" projectile is not even close to "prohibiting match ammo". Military style "hardball" ammo is certainly not considered match ammo and is prohibited in many places for hunting because it fits the non-expanding category.
In an older Hornady it stated that their 162gr A-Max match bullet was good for taking thin skinned large game animals. I used them accordingly for hunting whitetails with a 7STW. Impacts near and far were immediately fatal.
BTW - I don't know a single happily married man that doesn't listen to a woman.
lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
Do not confuse "Match" or "Target" bullets with "non-expanding". Huge difference. No Warden will make that call. Heck, I doubt 98% of Wardens can tell the difference between a Match and Hunting bullet unless he sees the box they come in.
I have only four examples of "match bullets expanding" (a far cry from a non-expanding" FMJ and far different than a "match" bulllet) since all the rest have exited and not been recovered. Not a single step was taken by any of these animals. Two bull elk, one mule deer, one pronghorn. Only the bull that was shot with the 215 Hyb even kicked (twice) after it hit the dirt. Lights out.
Sierra Match King expansion (.308 175gr) 160yds
Berger Hyb Target .308 215gr 432 yds
Berger OTM (Open Tip Match) 6.5mm 130gr 454 yds
Berger Hybrid Target 6mm 105gr 460yds
I have a LOT of exit photos showing larger than bullet diameter holes if you want to see those as proof too.
I have only four examples of "match bullets expanding" (a far cry from a non-expanding" FMJ and far different than a "match" bulllet) since all the rest have exited and not been recovered. Not a single step was taken by any of these animals. Two bull elk, one mule deer, one pronghorn. Only the bull that was shot with the 215 Hyb even kicked (twice) after it hit the dirt. Lights out.
Sierra Match King expansion (.308 175gr) 160yds
Berger Hyb Target .308 215gr 432 yds
Berger OTM (Open Tip Match) 6.5mm 130gr 454 yds
Berger Hybrid Target 6mm 105gr 460yds
I have a LOT of exit photos showing larger than bullet diameter holes if you want to see those as proof too.
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waspocrew
Well-Known Member
Agreed - match bullets do not equal "non-expanding". I would highly doubt any warden will even check your ammo.
Velocity causes and cures a lot of bullet issues. IME target bullets will work on broadside chest shots. They don't work as well on shoulder shots or quartering shots. Their performance can change dramatically if you hit, or miss, a rib on the way in or way out. The reason hunting bullets were invented more than a century ago was because of inconsistent target bullet performance. The reason the military uses target/FMJ bullets is because by international law they are prohibited from using anything else and lethality is more important than quick kills... if the bad guy screams for a minute while he bleeds out, oh well. Also, many of today's military bullets meet the letter of the law if not the spirit/intent, e.g., the M855 is FMJ and will fragment, the Russians have a FMJ 5.45 round with a hollow area behind the tip which expands rapidly, etc. Everyone got lax on this after WWII and nukes.
Today, we have hunting bullets that will be as accurate as any match bullet. I've won matches using Federal Premium .243 100 gr Sierra Game Kings when I didn't have time to load up some Sierra 107 gr Match Kings for my M70 Classic-based high power match rifle with a 26" Lilja 1:7" twist barrel. That factory load shot 1/2 MOA out to 600 yards in my rifle.
For deer, although I'm sure target bullets will do the job given broadside shots, I'd find a good streamlined hunting bullet that shoots well in my rifle... a Nosler BT or Accubond, etc... and use target bullets for targets and matches. That gives me the latitude to comfortably take more than broadside shots. As the game gets larger and tougher using hunting bullets becomes more critical. I wouldn't use a target bullet on elk or larger.
Today, we have hunting bullets that will be as accurate as any match bullet. I've won matches using Federal Premium .243 100 gr Sierra Game Kings when I didn't have time to load up some Sierra 107 gr Match Kings for my M70 Classic-based high power match rifle with a 26" Lilja 1:7" twist barrel. That factory load shot 1/2 MOA out to 600 yards in my rifle.
For deer, although I'm sure target bullets will do the job given broadside shots, I'd find a good streamlined hunting bullet that shoots well in my rifle... a Nosler BT or Accubond, etc... and use target bullets for targets and matches. That gives me the latitude to comfortably take more than broadside shots. As the game gets larger and tougher using hunting bullets becomes more critical. I wouldn't use a target bullet on elk or larger.
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lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
Everyone should switch to "hunting" bullets.
It would help free up all the Hybrids, OTMs, SMKs, and TMKs for me.
It would help free up all the Hybrids, OTMs, SMKs, and TMKs for me.
xsn10s
Well-Known Member
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I dunno who would even think of using "match" bullets on game. Heathens.
LDHunter
Well-Known Member
I'm glad this old thread got revived. I just spent what must have been an hour digesting it.
I used Remington CorLokt bullets for many years because they were cheap and never lost any game.
I switched to Nosler Partitions when I started hunting deer with the deer hound hunting crowd because of the snap shooting and often at tough angles, and no, I never have owned my own deer hounds because I can't afford them.
I tried switching to Nosler AccuBonds a few years ago and although I haven't lost a deer with them, the bullets seem to wander inside the game and I'd rather they go straight through so I'm back to Partitions because they DO in fact seem to go straight as a string through game and therefore I can hit the vitals at almost any angle and don't have to worry about big bones.
My longer range shots, back a few years ago, were always with Partitions and that was because I simply didn't trust another bullet and the BC and overall accuracy simply wasn't there so I didn't book any long range hunts plus I was working too much to take the time for those hunts.
Then I discovered the Berger Classic Hunter line and voila... I had the accuracy and reliable game killing predictable expansion I have always wanted.
BUT!!!! NOW!!! Since I really like to roll my own and am starting to look for less expensive components I am coming back full circle to shooting more and more SMK bullets and frankly the accuracy is so ridiculously easy to achieve in all of my fat barreled rifles and it's so reliable at any range, I'm now going to start hunting exclusively with them at any ranges beyond 150 yards and that includes for my next groundhog and prairie dog hunting trips.
There's just something that is both remarkably boring about shooting SMK's and yet very comforting in that I know if I do my job the bullet will arrive precisely where I want it to very close to every single time.
Vive La Match King. The nearly perfect long range target and hunting bullet that is also very easy to load for.
I used Remington CorLokt bullets for many years because they were cheap and never lost any game.
I switched to Nosler Partitions when I started hunting deer with the deer hound hunting crowd because of the snap shooting and often at tough angles, and no, I never have owned my own deer hounds because I can't afford them.
I tried switching to Nosler AccuBonds a few years ago and although I haven't lost a deer with them, the bullets seem to wander inside the game and I'd rather they go straight through so I'm back to Partitions because they DO in fact seem to go straight as a string through game and therefore I can hit the vitals at almost any angle and don't have to worry about big bones.
My longer range shots, back a few years ago, were always with Partitions and that was because I simply didn't trust another bullet and the BC and overall accuracy simply wasn't there so I didn't book any long range hunts plus I was working too much to take the time for those hunts.
Then I discovered the Berger Classic Hunter line and voila... I had the accuracy and reliable game killing predictable expansion I have always wanted.
BUT!!!! NOW!!! Since I really like to roll my own and am starting to look for less expensive components I am coming back full circle to shooting more and more SMK bullets and frankly the accuracy is so ridiculously easy to achieve in all of my fat barreled rifles and it's so reliable at any range, I'm now going to start hunting exclusively with them at any ranges beyond 150 yards and that includes for my next groundhog and prairie dog hunting trips.
There's just something that is both remarkably boring about shooting SMK's and yet very comforting in that I know if I do my job the bullet will arrive precisely where I want it to very close to every single time.
Vive La Match King. The nearly perfect long range target and hunting bullet that is also very easy to load for.
bgoldhunter
Well-Known Member
I've killed animals with match and hunting bullets. The only issue I've ever had was a Nosler Accubond out of a 300 WSM. Shot a decent buck that dropped then got up and ran 30 minutes later when I walked up to it. Left it for the night, went back and had to finish it off. That bullet penciled through the animal with zero expansion - including through the heart.
Also have seen this with a match bullet out of a 6GT on a small doe that my son wanted for some tender meat:
Also have seen this with a match bullet out of a 6GT on a small doe that my son wanted for some tender meat:
I've been hunting almost exclusively with Partitions for a long time. In the 308 shooting 165 gr, leaving the barrel at 2800 fps if the deer was over 50 yards away the bullet would not exit. It would dissipate all of the energy inside the deer. Of course the deer would drop in place so no having to worry about a blood trail to track it with. When I went to the 270 and 130 gr partition leaving the barrel alt 3060 fps the bullet would exit the deer out to around 100 yards and leave a nice exit wound with lots of blood, but the deer dropped in place so again a blood trail was a moot point. A few years ago now I couldn't get any partitions and ended up with 140 gr ballistic tip. I had the ammo loaded to about 3000 fps at the muzzle. A large 6 point wandered out of the woods into the field in front of me about 80 yards away. I shot it and it ran across the field towards me for about 30 yards before it dropped. One of the few that didn't drop in place. The bullet entered, took out both the heart and lungs and exited with very little expansion, There was not much of a blood trail since the bullet did not completely expand before going out the other side. I am back to partitions again for obvious reasons. This year I am shooting the Tikka T3 30-06 with 165 partitions. Next year after rebuilding the Remington 700 in 338 Win mag might give it a try with 210 gr partitions. time will tell.
