300 WM Long Range Load Help

[FURMAN]

This will be my last post in this thread. If I followed your suggestion 2% off max I would have absolutely crap loads on every one of the rifles I looked at my notes for. So no your way does NOT work. If it works for you great. Keep doing it. To knew reloaders do not be surprised when you accuracy and/or es sucks. The other part of that is a ladder typically takes 10-14 rounds to find the velocity node and when you are performing a ladder you are looking for max pressure so your statement about finding a load quicker is absolutely ridiculous. Good luck. Have a great hunting season.

 

[User4302021]

So, you have notes for 2% off in .005" increment seating depths for all your loads?

I find it curious that 2% is such crap, when you said in your previous post that YOUR loads all fell between 1-3%.

You said,"....my nodes have typically been 1% or 3% below the start of pressure but I would NEVER get hung up on that number."

That is a pretty unusual bell curve, don't you think?

 

[Rafter]

Just wanted to say thanks to all of you for the helpful advice. Spent some time today and my last group was just over 1/2". Burned through some powder and bullets!

 

[WildRose]

You wrote this post to refute what I was saying, but you made my case for me. You basically repeated every point I made. You just don't seem to like that I get there quicker and with much less fuss.

I did things your way, with the ladder testing and OCW, for 15 years. They do work, but they waste a whole lot of time and resources. And how many novices have you ever seen that could read a ladder or OCW properly anyway? How do think I came to these short cuts in the first place?

Because you're a lot like me. You're lazy and hate wasting throat life, barrel wear, powder, primers, bullets, and time, not to mention money.

 

[entoptics]

Just wanted to say thanks to all of you for the helpful advice. Spent some time today and my last group was just over 1/2". Burned through some powder and bullets!

So what worked for you? And, perhaps more importantly, when you say "last group" did you test thoroughly enough to find a reproducible combo, or is it possible you got lucky?

 

[Gord0]

Seating depth might shave a couple tenths of an MOA, but its unlikely to take a 1.5 MOA gun to 3/4 MOA. I did a pretty thorough test with the 208 ELDM, and found that there was no correlation between precision and depth. I tested half a dozen lengths between 3.485" (mag length) and 3.600 (touching lands), firing 3 to 4, four shot groups at each length.

The two best groups were 0.33 and 0.36 MOA at 3.485" and 3.590". The two worst groups were 1.16 MOA and 1.18 MOA at 3.485" and 3.600". When plotted, the data shows no meaningful trend. At any given length, there's about a half MOA spread in precision. Even after subtracting the worst "flier" from each group, to reduce shooter/condition influence, the lack of a trend was identical.

Obviously some bullets are more sensitive to depth than others, but I've not seen much that indicates even the most sensitive designs will be improved more than a few percent.

IMO, don't waste your time/money/barrel on a depth test till you can find a bullet that will shoot good.

Also, how "good" are your current reloads? Are you taking steps to reduce other variables like runout, neck tension, etc?

For reference, I took my rifle (Savage LRH 300WM, Shilen 24" select barrel) from about 1.1 MOA down to about 0.8 MOA by doing all the "standard" variable trimming. I first found a bullet it liked (208 ELD-M), then neck turned my brass, weight sorted, trimmed to uniform length, and reduced concentricity to ≤0.002" runout. The only thing that made an immediately obvious change was the bullet choice. Trimming/neck turning seems to have brought it down another 0.1 or so. The rest of my efforts are in the "noise", though I still do them for peace of mind.



Also, IMO, the 300 WM is marginal for 1000 yd elk shots, even if you do get it shooting good enough to hit a 12" plate 9 times out of 10 at 1000 yds. My calculations show your current load is down to ~1900 fps and ~1700 ftlbs at 1000 yds. Though Berger says their hunting VLD will expand "adequately" down to ~1800 fps, the target line (your 215 included) supposedly has a thicker jacket than the hunting line. Marginal expansion and energy are not ideal for elk.

Others may of course disagree, but I feel that the 2K/2K rule for velocity/energy is probably good to follow on something as gnarly as an elk (about 850 yds for your load).

I think this guy would disagree with most of what you had to say in your post.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/comparing-the-berger-210-vld-to-the-215-hybrid.88657/

 

[User4302021]

Because you're a lot like me. You're lazy and hate wasting throat life, barrel wear, powder, primers, bullets, and time, not to mention money.

I noticed in your post #11, in this thread, that our approaches were similar. That is why I decided to go ahead and post my method.

I'm not saying it is the only way, but it is quick and fairly straight forward. It is safe and efficient. At the least, it will pinpoint an area for further tweaking. If NO good prospects show up, then it is probably not a good combo to chase around.

Maybe someone will try it and it will work for them.

 

[Rafter]

So what worked for you? And, perhaps more importantly, when you say "last group" did you test thoroughly enough to find a reproducible combo, or is it possible you got lucky?

It is possible I got lucky. I already have more loaded to confirm. I lost daylight so had to shut it down. I ran through different power charges all h1000 and play with multiple seating depths. I finally found something that it seemed to like. 77.5 gr H1000, burger 215 hybrids and I still have to run the chronograph. When I ran 78gr it was 2880 FPS. Not sure where the 1/2 gr less of powder will land me. I was hoping for more velocity but I just couldn't get the rifle to like it. I may still try some different bullets down the road but wanted to stay course with what I had to see if I could get them to work.I spent all day working on loads and shooting so I sure hope it is consistent.

 

[WildRose]

It is possible I got lucky. I already have more loaded to confirm. I lost daylight so had to shut it down. I ran through different power charges all h1000 and play with multiple seating depths. I finally found something that it seemed to like. 77.5 gr H1000, burger 215 hybrids and I still have to run the chronograph. When I ran 78gr it was 2880 FPS. Not sure where the 1/2 gr less of powder will land me. I was hoping for more velocity but I just couldn't get the rifle to like it. I may still try some different bullets down the road but wanted to stay course with what I had to see if I could get them to work.I spent all day working on loads and shooting so I sure hope it is consistent.

Try RL26, or RL33 before you give up.

 

[entoptics]

It is possible I got lucky. I already have more loaded to confirm. I lost daylight so had to shut it down. I ran through different power charges all h1000 and play with multiple seating depths. I finally found something that it seemed to like. 77.5 gr H1000, burger 215 hybrids and I still have to run the chronograph. When I ran 78gr it was 2880 FPS. Not sure where the 1/2 gr less of powder will land me. I was hoping for more velocity but I just couldn't get the rifle to like it. I may still try some different bullets down the road but wanted to stay course with what I had to see if I could get them to work.I spent all day working on loads and shooting so I sure hope it is consistent.

Good to hear. If you got half MOA once, then it's worth checking. Even if you can get 1 MOA average over half dozen 4 shot groups, then it's still good, and certainly worth trying out the "fine tuning" that others in this thread suggested.

Half a grain of H1K with a 215 shouldn't be more than about 40 fps (probably less), so that combo is still above transonic on steel at ~1500 yds, and will absolutely "lights out" a big animal at ~750 yds. If it's half MOA going forward, and your skill is up to it, it will crash them further still.

Keep us posted.

 

[IdahoShooting]

What's your es/sd? H1000 and 200+ gr bullets is pretty good in every 300wm I've ever loaded for

I am a novice reloader and need a little help with the acronyms you all are using. I assume that "sd" means "seating depth" but what does "es" mean? I am finding these posts very helpful as I just purchased my first 300 wm (Browning Hell's Canyon Long Range new 1 in 8 twist). I am trying to learn how to reload and am using Hornady 180 gr. SST's and Reloader 22 powder.

 

[jasent]

I am a novice reloader and need a little help with the acronyms you all are using. I assume that "sd" means "seating depth" but what does "es" mean? I am finding these posts very helpful as I just purchased my first 300 wm (Browning Hell's Canyon Long Range new 1 in 8 twist). I am trying to learn how to reload and am using Hornady 180 gr. SST's and Reloader 22 powder.

sd and es are referring to velocity spread. Standard deviation and extreme spread

 

[donwill]

I am using a tikka t3 with a custom Pacnor barrel with 1 in 8" twist 28" long the final load that works best for me is as follows : Hornady brass (NEW) Hornady 200 grain ELD bullets GM215M primers and 74.4 grains of 7828 powder. Velocity average 3154. I get 1.25" groups at 300 yards.

 

[donwill]

This is a 300 Win Mag.