I am looking for some advice on a good long range hunting bullet and power combo. Also wondering what your experience is as far as optimal velocity. The rifle is for elk only and desired up to 1000yds. I am currently running Burger 215 hybrids with 78.5 gr. Of H1000 at 2930 FPS. The rifle specs are custom build - Stiller action with a 26" Krieger 1-10 twist. I am currently adjusting bullet seating depth to try and tighten up the groups. Any advice on a load and velocity that has worked well for you would be greatly appreciated.
300 WM Long Range Load Help
- Thread starter Rafter
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Sounds like you are right where you should be velocity wise. Mine runs 3000 fps out of a 26" Brux with 79 gr H1000. My barrel likes the 215 at 30 thou off. Truthfully that's the only depth I tried. Don't think I could improve on it. What kind of groups are you getting? Have you tried the Berger seating depth test?
Matthappens
Active Member
I too am using H1000 with 79gr of powder, but I am going with the 200gr ELD X and it has been very reliable even out to 1400 yards. The nice thing about this load is that the ELD M 208gr is ballistically similar and your long range data will be very close. As for the effectivness on animals, it is truly amazing. I am getting about 2950 ft per sec. with Norma brass and with Gunwerks brass I am getting about 3000ft per sec.
I am using a Browning xbolt stainless stalker with a 26" barrel and getting about 1/2 MOA groups or better.
Matt
jasent
Well-Known Member
What's your es/sd? H1000 and 200+ gr bullets is pretty good in every 300wm I've ever loaded for
Matthappens
Active Member
My es is about 25 with the Norma brass but I have only played with the Gunwerks brass a little bit just before this hunting season and it was a simmilar es. However I didn't load my hunting loads this year with the Gunwerks because i didin't have time to redo my data at extended ranges due to them being a bit faster. I find that the heavier bullets in my 300wm don't group as well with the 1/10 twist but the 200gr is fantastic for everything and good BC's.
entoptics
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Seating depth might shave a couple tenths of an MOA, but its unlikely to take a 1.5 MOA gun to 3/4 MOA. I did a pretty thorough test with the 208 ELDM, and found that there was no correlation between precision and depth. I tested half a dozen lengths between 3.485" (mag length) and 3.600 (touching lands), firing 3 to 4, four shot groups at each length.
The two best groups were 0.33 and 0.36 MOA at 3.485" and 3.590". The two worst groups were 1.16 MOA and 1.18 MOA at 3.485" and 3.600". When plotted, the data shows no meaningful trend. At any given length, there's about a half MOA spread in precision. Even after subtracting the worst "flier" from each group, to reduce shooter/condition influence, the lack of a trend was identical.
Obviously some bullets are more sensitive to depth than others, but I've not seen much that indicates even the most sensitive designs will be improved more than a few percent.
IMO, don't waste your time/money/barrel on a depth test till you can find a bullet that will shoot good.
Also, how "good" are your current reloads? Are you taking steps to reduce other variables like runout, neck tension, etc?
For reference, I took my rifle (Savage LRH 300WM, Shilen 24" select barrel) from about 1.1 MOA down to about 0.8 MOA by doing all the "standard" variable trimming. I first found a bullet it liked (208 ELD-M), then neck turned my brass, weight sorted, trimmed to uniform length, and reduced concentricity to ≤0.002" runout. The only thing that made an immediately obvious change was the bullet choice. Trimming/neck turning seems to have brought it down another 0.1 or so. The rest of my efforts are in the "noise", though I still do them for peace of mind.
Also, IMO, the 300 WM is marginal for 1000 yd elk shots, even if you do get it shooting good enough to hit a 12" plate 9 times out of 10 at 1000 yds. My calculations show your current load is down to ~1900 fps and ~1700 ftlbs at 1000 yds. Though Berger says their hunting VLD will expand "adequately" down to ~1800 fps, the target line (your 215 included) supposedly has a thicker jacket than the hunting line. Marginal expansion and energy are not ideal for elk.
Others may of course disagree, but I feel that the 2K/2K rule for velocity/energy is probably good to follow on something as gnarly as an elk (about 850 yds for your load).
tmmcampbell
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I was using h1000 with 215 Bergers. Was not getting very good groups. Switched primers and they tightened up. Changed to vv 570 and gained 100 fps and started shooting in the .3s. Keep searching and trying different combinations you will find what you need.
I have used 215 Bergers in 4 different rifles. I have NOT found them to be seating depth insensitive as others have stated. I can show you load development with all four rifles where seating depth testing changed from over 2moa to well under .5 moa. You need to do seating depth testing. I would discourage Bergers method as I already stated I have not found these huge windows they suggest. I personally would do at the lands, -10,-20,-30,-40,-50. I would expect one of them to be much better than what you are seeing. The above post stating seating depth testing is a waste is absolutely as far from the truth as you can get. I have developed loads for well over 30 rifles most with multiple loads and have NEVER found a single load not sensitive to seating depth. His suggestion that a 300 win with a 215 is not adequate for shooting elk at 1000 yards is completely false as well. Obviously your shooting and wind reading skills will come into play but the 215 launched at 2850 plus will be more than plenty at any altitude. The 215 Berger is absolutely impressive on game. I will also disagree with his statement about changing until you find a bullet that will shoot without actually finishing load development. I have never found a bullet that will not shoot with the proper powder charge and seating depth. I only use what I would consider premium, known for accuracy, bullets such as Berger, Amax, ELDM, Sierra Match Kings. Pick the components, as you have, and stick with them until they just will not shoot. As I already stated I doubt that will happen. If you keep swapping components you most likely will end up chasing your tail. Advising to swap components before spending the necessary time to see they aren't going to work just does not make sense.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Have had great success with RL26, 33, and H1000 throughout the range for my .300wms. The heavier you go the more effective the slower powders are.
Haven't loaded for that particular bullet but have run the heavier Accubond LR's.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
My method is a bit different from that of lots of guys but it works well for me and saves me a lot of time.
Load just short of mag length.
Work up several different loads.
Pick the top load or two and then start tweking seating depth a few thousanths at a time till I find my best groups.
Pick the best of the lot.
In ever worry about trying for top velocity anymore just the most accurate.
The animal you kill will never know the bullet left at 2900 vs 3100 and with all of the ballistic resources we have available today we can calculate our trajectories in secons.
jasent
Well-Known Member
Have you looked at the 210 VLDs? Or the 185's? May like your 1:10 a little better. I have seen seating depth changes go from 2moa- 1/2
Timnterra
Well-Known Member
I would be frustrated too if I'd spent the $ on a custom build that isn't shooting. There are other variables that might be contributing to your problem, like: the rifle's bedding? The scope mounting? The shooting from? Make sure none of these problems exist before burning up all your powder and bullets.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
What Entoptics said about seating depth, and also about the 300 wm and elk, is simply completely incorrect. Want proof? Talk to Broz on this site, and the owner of LRO, who has killed/whitnessed killed more elk then most of us combined with the 215/300 wm combo out to a long, long ways out. And seating depth absolutely can make a difference of 1.5" to .5" groups, it is a well known fact in precision reloading. Not saying that is what your issue is, it could be a long action screw pressing against your bolt head, scope/ring/base issues, or one of many other issues, but seating depth absolutely can make the difference.
