300 rum vs 300wby mag

[Boss Hoss]

First lets kill one myth right now...brass prices. 300 wby brass is CHEAPER than RUM brass. Sinclair sells Rem brass in both. Cost: 300 wby...74.55/100. 300 RUM.....92.45/100. Now if you plan on beating the crap out of your brass, then use the remmy brass in either and throw them away after a couple of firings. I've been there and done that. Max velocity is ALWAYS fun. If you want to keep things at realistic velocitys, buy GOOD brass. 300 WBY Norma 134.85/100. WAY better brass than remmy brass. 300 RUM, You may be stuck for a while....I know Nostler is making them, but, availabillity is poor as of now. I have no experiance with that brand of brass. I have herd that is not as good as the norma/lapua brass. As far as cost. It looks like the other calibers that Nostler is making is comparible in price to Norma.

Accuracy.....Belt.....Sholder design. ALL HOGWASH. Check the 1K results. Hardly anyone out there using a 300 RUM. There are quite a few 300 wby's, and a bunch more 300 improved (AI, BAER, Spencer,.ect...). And they win!!! My point is that the belt has nothing to do with anything once your brass has been fired, assuming you know what you are doing at the reloading bench. Even at that, I have won matches using new brass. And, that being said, and the inexperienced loader over sizes his RUM brass and pushes the sholder back to far, you have headspace problems. Push the sholder back too far on a belted case and....yep...you still have the belt to headspace off of, keeping things safe. I will admit that one of the reasons the 300 RUM isn't prominant in 1 K benchrest is the lack of QUALITY brass. I think it can be just as accurate as the wby/AI/ sized cases. BUT....Compeditors are now leaning to the 300 WSM. They are finding that they just don't need that much case capacity for thier use....but we are talking LR HUNTING here, so lots of boiler room is good. But as for the 300 RUM....mayby to much of a good thing.

Now, based on capacity alone...all else being equal, the 300 RUM will be a touch faster. As far as free bore, I know that WBY factory rifles have some, but I admit I don't know about the other gun manufacturers out there. I shoot all custom stuff in 300 WBY, and don't use ANY free bore. A little less speed....a whole lot more accurate. But, watch for high PSI...it will come SOONER w/o freebore.

Good luck, and know this.....If your biggest wory in life is haveing to choose between these two choices, then life IS GOOD!!! No bad choice.

I am sorry but I am an IBS member and shoot only in 1K the results you are speaking of may happen on an isolated basis but are the exception to the rule By Far and I have never seen a Weatherby used that was competitive.

In BR shooting I have not seen anyone using a Weatherby case and certainly not free bore LOL. My question to you is do you shoot competitively? And if so please give the specifics of your Light and Heavy gun.

 

[rtv900]

I was looking for prices for a 300rum today and the gun dealer told me that remington has stopped production of their large caliber rifles due to the economy, so he cant even order one.

I have ordered several Remington Custom shop guns this year so I called my contact at the custom shop and it is not true. They are still making regular production guns in large cals. I also know the local Remington rep so I talked with him and he laughed. They are making large bore guns. So you might same some $$ on the gun with a weatherby but the 300 RUM ammo is cheeper than the weatherby ammo. Ammo is what adds up over time.

I am a fan of the 300RUM and Remington in general. But to answer your post above Remington makes big bore guns even in this economy.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[4xforfun]

I am sorry but I am an IBS member and shoot only in 1K the results you are speaking of may happen on an isolated basis but are the exception to the rule By Far and I have never seen a Weatherby used that was competitive.

In BR shooting I have not seen anyone using a Weatherby case and certainly not free bore LOL. My question to you is do you shoot competitively? And if so please give the specifics of your Light and Heavy gun.

Really......I am in third place in IBS SOY points....and I shoot a 300 wby. Lee Fisher is in second place, he shoots a 300 AI in both LG and HG, based on the 300 wby. I just bought Danny Brooks' 300 WBY LG, and he is in first place in IBS SOY points. The only reason more guys don't shoot a big 30 in LG is recoil. And the reason the WSM is gaining a huge foot hold in 1 K is that it just plain shoots at the velocity nodes that the big VLD bullets shoot best. You don't need that much boiler room to shoot in that 2900 fps range. That is why Danny sold his....He is on the WSM now in compitition. I shoot a 300 because it is also my "cabin gun", and I have been around them all my life and know how to feed them.

You want my gun specs (I shoot the same gun in both classes), look at the match results at Harris, Pella, and the Nats at Thunder Valley.

My points were and are: 300 rum brass is not cheaper than 300 wby brass. The 300 rum is not MORE accurate than the 300 WBY. The belt does not hurt accuracy. I don't think a guy should be steared away from the WBY because some guy posts wrong info about it. And a 15 - 20 % gain in powder for a 1.5% gain in speed doesn't seem worth it TO ME. TO ME. TO ME. Just my point of view. I LOVE speed. But the end result has to be justified....TO ME. If you guys think it is than do it. I am not being sarcastic.......Some guys just flat out LOVE speed. More power to them (again, pun intended).

I NEVER said the 300 RUM won't shoot. I NEVER said that the 300 RUM isn't faster with all bullets. I NEVER said I used free bore in my chamberings. I do know that more realys and matches are won with the belted 300 wby and it's off shoots than the non belted 300 RUM case. Does this mean that the 300 WBY is THE most popular and wins the most? Hell no.....Never said it did. But, My guess that the 300 WBY is a lot more popular to LR hunting guys than the Cartridge Of The Week In 1K benchrest is to the LR hunters. I would say the 6.5-284 is probably winning more right now nation wide than any other. I could be wrong. How many guys are using that cartrige (or the Dasher, 6.5x47 L, 6 BR, or what ever) for 1000 + yard shots on elk?

If it's one, than that is one to many, IMO.



TRY AGAIN

 

[jwp475]

Do you shoot the 300 Wea. with the silly double radius sholder or do you shoot an improved version without the double radius shoulder.

 

[drbobc]

Do you shoot the 300 Wea. with the silly double radius sholder or do you shoot an improved version without the double radius shoulder.

you will have to explain to me what is silly about the double radius shoulder. Roy Weatherby certainly made a fortune with it and there are numerous Weatherby rifles around to show its success. I suppose you want an ackley improvement on it even though Ackley was a supporter of Weatherby.

 

[jwp475]

According to a gentleman that gunsmithed for Roy when Roy waqs just starting out and developing his cartridges the reason for the Double Radious shoulder was that Roy reamer grinder was one of the only one in the country that could do the double radious shoulder and that kept other from making a reamer for his cartridges with out Roy's ok. There is really nothing magic about it, just a gimmick is all

 

[drbobc]

well it is true roy choose the double radius shoulder because it would be hard to duplicate but you cannot show that it does not effect velocity because no one really knows the answer to the issue. There are cars designed with certain aspects for speed but it is hard to prove that also. I think the logical solution to the problem is to accept the success of Weatherby and his adoption of velocity as important. I am willing to say that without Weatherby's success, there would not be a 300 ultra magnum as we curently know it. Roy was able to use contacts such as John Wayne, Chuck Yeager and numerous others (e.g., JFK) as walking advertisements and was a consumate salesman. His passion for the firearms is unique in the firearm industry.

 

[jwp475]

Not taking anything away from Roy's ability to promote. The fact is that at the same pressure a 10% increase in case capacity only gains a 2 1/2% increase in velocity at the same pressure and the Weatherby cartridge falls right in line with this internal ballistics rule.

 

[Marine sniper]

Really......I am in third place in IBS SOY points....and I shoot a 300 wby. Lee Fisher is in second place, he shoots a 300 AI in both LG and HG, based on the 300 wby. I just bought Danny Brooks' 300 WBY LG, and he is in first place in IBS SOY points. The only reason more guys don't shoot a big 30 in LG is recoil. And the reason the WSM is gaining a huge foot hold in 1 K is that it just plain shoots at the velocity nodes that the big VLD bullets shoot best. You don't need that much boiler room to shoot in that 2900 fps range. That is why Danny sold his....He is on the WSM now in compitition. I shoot a 300 because it is also my "cabin gun", and I have been around them all my life and know how to feed them.

You want my gun specs (I shoot the same gun in both classes), look at the match results at Harris, Pella, and the Nats at Thunder Valley.

My points were and are: 300 rum brass is not cheaper than 300 wby brass. The 300 rum is not MORE accurate than the 300 WBY. The belt does not hurt accuracy. I don't think a guy should be steared away from the WBY because some guy posts wrong info about it. And a 15 - 20 % gain in powder for a 1.5% gain in speed doesn't seem worth it TO ME. TO ME. TO ME. Just my point of view. I LOVE speed. But the end result has to be justified....TO ME. If you guys think it is than do it. I am not being sarcastic.......Some guys just flat out LOVE speed. More power to them (again, pun intended).

I NEVER said the 300 RUM won't shoot. I NEVER said that the 300 RUM isn't faster with all bullets. I NEVER said I used free bore in my chamberings. I do know that more realys and matches are won with the belted 300 wby and it's off shoots than the non belted 300 RUM case. Does this mean that the 300 WBY is THE most popular and wins the most? Hell no.....Never said it did. But, My guess that the 300 WBY is a lot more popular to LR hunting guys than the Cartridge Of The Week In 1K benchrest is to the LR hunters. I would say the 6.5-284 is probably winning more right now nation wide than any other. I could be wrong. How many guys are using that cartrige (or the Dasher, 6.5x47 L, 6 BR, or what ever) for 1000 + yard shots on elk?

If it's one, than that is one to many, IMO.



TRY AGAIN

When you say VLD's I assume you mean 210 Bergers. I also shoot a 300 Wby and use 210 Bergers. What velocity have you found to be most accurate.

Any tips dealing specifically with the 300 Wby ?

Thanks,
John

 

[Boss Hoss]

Really......I am in third place in IBS SOY points....and I shoot a 300 wby. Lee Fisher is in second place, he shoots a 300 AI in both LG and HG, based on the 300 wby. I just bought Danny Brooks' 300 WBY LG, and he is in first place in IBS SOY points. The only reason more guys don't shoot a big 30 in LG is recoil. And the reason the WSM is gaining a huge foot hold in 1 K is that it just plain shoots at the velocity nodes that the big VLD bullets shoot best. You don't need that much boiler room to shoot in that 2900 fps range. That is why Danny sold his....He is on the WSM now in compitition. I shoot a 300 because it is also my "cabin gun", and I have been around them all my life and know how to feed them.

You want my gun specs (I shoot the same gun in both classes), look at the match results at Harris, Pella, and the Nats at Thunder Valley.

My points were and are: 300 rum brass is not cheaper than 300 wby brass. The 300 rum is not MORE accurate than the 300 WBY. The belt does not hurt accuracy. I don't think a guy should be steared away from the WBY because some guy posts wrong info about it. And a 15 - 20 % gain in powder for a 1.5% gain in speed doesn't seem worth it TO ME. TO ME. TO ME. Just my point of view. I LOVE speed. But the end result has to be justified....TO ME. If you guys think it is than do it. I am not being sarcastic.......Some guys just flat out LOVE speed. More power to them (again, pun intended).

I NEVER said the 300 RUM won't shoot. I NEVER said that the 300 RUM isn't faster with all bullets. I NEVER said I used free bore in my chamberings. I do know that more realys and matches are won with the belted 300 wby and it's off shoots than the non belted 300 RUM case. Does this mean that the 300 WBY is THE most popular and wins the most? Hell no.....Never said it did. But, My guess that the 300 WBY is a lot more popular to LR hunting guys than the Cartridge Of The Week In 1K benchrest is to the LR hunters. I would say the 6.5-284 is probably winning more right now nation wide than any other. I could be wrong. How many guys are using that cartrige (or the Dasher, 6.5x47 L, 6 BR, or what ever) for 1000 + yard shots on elk?

If it's one, than that is one to many, IMO.



TRY AGAIN

When I won the Missouri State Championship in 2006 and shot against Lee in 2007 I came in 4th in LG in and if memory serves me Lee won either LG or HG in 2007. LG is what interests me and HG is the domain of the big boys (338 Lapua Imp etc) because of bag manners. Being that I shoot LG because it more represents what I shoot in the field and I am a SCORE SHOOTER not one of the "other" ones lol..

In LG I love it when someone has a big boomer because it put me at an advantage because the bag manners are terrible but if you win that is all that counts in the end. I have only been competing for 3 years and to be honest it is not that hard but the travel is what kills me. I shoot at our range at the ranch and in fact am going to be leaving in a few hours to try and shoot more big ugly pigs maybe a monster deer at long range in a 25 to 30 mph north wind! That is why I am a score shooter because that is ALL that matters when you are shooting for real.

Glad you are having success with the WBY and esp in LG. I built a couple of 300 Slowpokes which are based on the improved 300 RUM and they might have potential in a HG but now have the Warp 7 which is based on a 300 Win and it definitely does and will be my first chambering when I build my HG next year (Macassar Blank is still drying).

 

[drbobc]

I am well aware of the land of diminishig returns with regard to case capacity and velocity but what you really mean is that with today's powders there is a diminishing return. I can remember well the controversy surrounded the 30-378 because of powders burning too rapidly for its potential. I am even willing to state that this issue is still here but things are improving with the slow burning powders such as retumbo and others. Perhaps one day this issue might be resolved. In fact, commercial loads usuually are faster than handloads because of powder mixtures that. for example, Weatherby has access to but we do not. This was alluded to by many of the older geniuses including Ackley.

 

[4xforfun]

Do you shoot the 300 Wea. with the silly double radius sholder or do you shoot an improved version without the double radius shoulder.

Stock 300 wby/.330 NK

 

[4xforfun]

Look.....I don't want to get into a discussion about what works for 1 K compitition. Compitition is a good baromiter for seeing the potential of a given cartrige, but lets be honest......I am convinced that you can get almost any cartrige to shoot well at 1 K. Ok...mayby not the 30-30, 22 mag, ect, but build the right gun, load the proper ammo, and learn to drive it, and almost anything probably could win. Maybe only once in a 100 years, but it could.

As far as my velosity, I have found 4 different nodes. 2780, 2920, 3030, 3190...210 Berger VLD. I used the 2780 load in compitition (I used to think it was 2880, but got a new, accurate chrono). I know, I know.....that is a good 30-06 speed. Kind of a waist of case capasity, but I had 6 fps ES and near zero vertical. I have 2 new BBLs waiting to be chambered, and I am seriously considering the WSM. NOT FOR HUNTIG, BUT FOR 1 K. My hunting load is the 3190. 14 fps ES. All the loads were very close, accuracy wise, but in 1 K, 1/2 inch difference in group size can be the difference between making a shootoff or having lunch.

Again...you can't go wrong with either case. Just don't sit there and tell me that the RUM brass is cheaper when it is actualy more. Don't tell me the RUM is MORE accurate because of the "stupid belt and dumb WBY sholder". It's not. They both will shoot. The drawback with the RUM case is its size (for 1 K comp.) . The trend is smaller 30 cal. cases, not bigger, and the 300 WBY sized cases are loosing ground to the newer WSM.

But, this is a LR hunting fourm......bigger aint so bad!!!! The deer, elk or moose can"t tell the difference between a 5 inch and a 6 inch 10 shot group at 1 K. Or 50 FPS either, for that matter. They CAN tell if your guidance system is messed up D), or if you don't have near enough HP to do the job properly. Improper bullets for the job.....ect....

Learn to shoot, refine your load technique, have an accurate gun, know where your 1st shot out of a cold BBL is headed, and use all of the other stuff out there to aid in making the shot. GOOD rangefiner. Good rest/bi-pod/shooting sticks/whatever. Pocket computer/balistic program/portable weather station. ECT.......

Like I said before....If you biggest worry in life is having to choose between a 300 WBY or RUM, then life is truly good!!!!

I guess since I "BLEW MY COVER" ,I can sign my name to this **** thing.

Good luck
Tod Soeby

 

[jwp475]

Nobody here said that a Wea. can't or wont shoot. Why the 1K BR disscusion on a Long Rnge hunting site is always puzzling.
I still think that the double radius shoulder is "silly" and the belt is useless IMHO amd now we have a choice to use a case without a belt and that's the way I choose to go