300 Norma Improved/230 Berger and Africa

[tooth doc]

Heading to Africa next year for plains game. Smallest being impala and largest an eland. Thinking about taking 300 Norma Improved that is dialed in with 230 gr Bergers at 2970 fps as a mild load.

I have read multiple places that PHs in Africa don't like Berger bullets to be used. Does anyone have any experience around Berger's in Africa especially the 230 hybrid? Would I be better off working up something different like maybe a 215 Hammer or something else?

Have used that 168 , 7wsm combo on eland, kudu, blesbok, sable, gemsbok, nyala, zebra , reedbuck, waterbuck and others. Never had a failure

 

[LRMonkey]

I have been to South-Africa 7 times hunting, 2 of them with a .454 Casull revolver. On the other trips i have used my Steyr Scout in .308 with Swift Scirocco 165gr bullets. It is all about bullet placement, you go for broadside front leg and 1/3 up from the brisket or then you go for the engine room from a rearward angle, one option is the neck shot.
My Kudu was 284 meters from sticks, black wildebeest about 150 meters from prone, blue wildebeest about 100 meters using a fence post as a shooting stick and from an angle from behind where i used the "elbow" as an aiming point.
Other animals from 10 meters to 575 meters.
Baboons and especially vervet monkeys are great target practice !

Train to shoot with the sticks, either bipod or tri-pod, you will definitely mostly shoot with sticks because of the tallish grass.

Travelling with a separate gun case and ammunition case is a wise way to travel.

Choosing South African Airways is a good choice because they are used to transport safari hunters equipment and at least from europe to SA and back, they dont charge for the gun and ammunition any extra.

In SA at the Johannesburg airport firearms licensing office you have to have patience, be nice to the officers and you dont have to tip them anything (they might try but it is actually forbidden to pay them corruption money).
In the terminal you carry your own stuff, i dont trust the luggage carrier guys, seen too many discussions about the "agreed" price to pay for the porters.
At the firearms check in office you can tip the guys about 20 rands for each case, that will make them happy and they can buy their lunch for that money. Dont show them any dollars, handle only rands.

Be mentally prepared for TIA, meaning this is africa. The airport officials some times are quite reluctant to serve white men, especially if you are tall, well build, bald and your accent is close to afrikaner or boer english accent. Americans they try to rip off of their money.

Enjoy your hunting trip to magnificent South Africa !

 

[FURMAN]

Ryan,
Was this out of your 300 PRC?

230s out of my PRC. The 215s were with a 300WM I no longer own.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Lead bullets have worked fine for killing meat for 200 years

Do you have any idea how many lead bullets you need to eat to mess up your body?

Sounds awfully ignorant

My strong suite in life is ignorance. So I will stick with Hammer for all hunting.

 

[edward hogan]

Have never hunted Africa, but do understand that clearing customs with a rifle which has ammunition not headstamped to match the chambering can be problematic; like prohibited. This is why guys taking a .338-06 to Africa pay the $1 per piece of brass or $65/box for .338-06 Weatherby Brass or A-Square brass loaded ammunition.

But what the heck? Nothing like the extra stress of importing a wildcat on your Trip Of A Lifetime!

Got other rifles can take? Talk to your pro hunter and get their advice.

Sounds like a great setup, but won't a .300wby deliver about the same performance? Or be sure and go with a .340wby and load partitions or accubonds. .375ruger is an all-in-one sort of solution. Nothing wrong with heavier bullets on plains game, and you get a velocity advantage over the H&H. Get a Ruger Safari with the 24" barrel and you're set! Integral scope base and tough rings, carry the backup peep sight and maybe a 1-4x for dangerous game and a 4-14x for big deer and wildebeast.

Find out about your wildcat before you blow up your trip... There's gonna be enough to stress about...

 

[LRMonkey]

Have never hunted Africa, but do understand that clearing customs with a rifle which has ammunition not headstamped to match the chambering can be problematic; like prohibited. This is why guys taking a .338-06 to Africa pay the $1 per piece of brass or $65/box for .338-06 Weatherby Brass or A-Square brass loaded ammunition.

But what the heck? Nothing like the extra stress of importing a wildcat on your Trip Of A Lifetime!

Got other rifles can take? Talk to your pro hunter and get their advice.

Sounds like a great setup, but won't a .300wby deliver about the same performance? Or be sure and go with a .340wby and load partitions or accubonds. .375ruger is an all-in-one sort of solution. Nothing wrong with heavier bullets on plains game, and you get a velocity advantage over the H&H. Get a Ruger Safari with the 24" barrel and you're set! Integral scope base and tough rings, carry the backup peep sight and maybe a 1-4x for dangerous game and a 4-14x for big deer and wildebeast.

Find out about your wildcat before you blow up your trip... There's gonna be enough to stress about...

I have heard about this problem, but i have never been subject to some one at the firearms office checking my ammunition, and i have been there 7 times.

 

[Allen Kitts]

230s out of my PRC. The 215s were with a 300WM I no longer own.

Are you still shooting the 230's out of the PRC?

 

[FURMAN]

Are you still shooting the 230's out of the PRC?

That PRC barrel is not currently attached to a rifle. It still has 400 ish rounds left in it but I am shooting the 6.5PRC on that action. I have another 30 Nosler which is a much better cartridge so I don't see the 300 PRC getting much attention. That 300 PRC will only shoot the 230s if it gets screwed back on because it hates 215s, 212s, 208s, and 225s.

 

[HARPERC]

....Lead bullets have worked fine for killing meat for 200 years.......Do you have any idea how many lead bullets you need to eat to mess up your body?.......Sounds awfully ignorant

1)...and we've even made them pointy so they fly better.
2)...No. Do you? I don't know how many paint chips the grandson has to eat before it's an issue, but stopping before it starts seems like a good plan.
3).......Your call.

I have nothing against the Berger, but if you're choosing it solely on the basis of BC for a hunt that's likely close/medium range, you're taking other good bullets out of the equation.

I've been using the Hammer's because they've been easy to load for, shoot great, and terminal performance (limited experience) has been great. Lead free isn't part of my equation, and I have quit other mono's that didn't meet my expectations.

To the OP have a great trip with whatever you choose-and let us know how it goes.

 

[ericbc7]

Lead contamination of game meat seems overhyped to me. Sure if you had a crop like a bird and used bullets for grist you would accumulate whatever they were made of. Any metal You are likely to ingest with game meat (copper, lead, bismuth etc.) is not going to stay in your system long enough to impact your health in any meaningful way.
If your rifle shoots an appropriate particular bullet well, go with it, keeping in mind that monolithic bullets tend to need more velocity to perform well on soft tissues.
I have not heard of many Safari hunters bringing home the meat, but if you do, I would worry more about how the meat is handled after the shot than with what it was shot. I hope the Norma mag improved let's you shoot standard norma mag ammo in case your ammo gets diverted. Good fortune on your hunt!

 

[smokepoler]

Here's my best advice and I've hunted Africa six times and have shot over a hundred plains game animals. ONE had to take two shots and ranges were anywhere between 200 and 700. Have never used anything bigger than a 7mm shooting 168 Bergers HVLDs. Most were with 6.5s with 130 gr Bergers.

Don't listen to anyone who hasn't been to and hunted Africa.
Don't listen to anyone who HAS NOT shot Berger bullets in Africa (or anywhere else for that matter).
Don't listen to anyone who says Barnes bullets are the ticket in Africa.
Don't listen to what your PH has to say about bullet selection. Most in Africa are stuck in the cup & core philosophy because that's what grandad used.
Don't believe the myth that African plains game animals are tougher. Hit them in the right spot, they're going to die, quickly.
Don't listen to horror stories about taking wildcats and ammo being lost. This is EXTREMELY rare. Same goes for other horror stories related by people that have probably never hunted out of their home state but they "heard" about some guy who lost his ammo. Do your homework and use a travel agency that specializes in Africa hunting like Gracy Travel or Travel Express and get the meet & greet package. You'll breeze through the loops easier than you would in the states.
Get TSA/Pre-Global Traveler, same as above, it greases the skids.

Good luck but be forewarned, there is no worse hunting addiction than Africa.

 

[Allen Kitts]

Here's my best advice and I've hunted Africa six times and have shot over a hundred plains game animals. ONE had to take two shots and ranges were anywhere between 200 and 700. Have never used anything bigger than a 7mm shooting 168 Bergers HVLDs. Most were with 6.5s with 130 gr Bergers.

Don't listen to anyone who hasn't been to and hunted Africa.
Don't listen to anyone who HAS NOT shot Berger bullets in Africa (or anywhere else for that matter).
Don't listen to anyone who says Barnes bullets are the ticket in Africa.
Don't listen to what your PH has to say about bullet selection. Most in Africa are stuck in the cup & core philosophy because that's what grandad used.
Don't believe the myth that African plains game animals are tougher. Hit them in the right spot, they're going to die, quickly.
Don't listen to horror stories about taking wildcats and ammo being lost. This is EXTREMELY rare. Same goes for other horror stories related by people that have probably never hunted out of their home state but they "heard" about some guy who lost his ammo. Do your homework and use a travel agency that specializes in Africa hunting like Gracy Travel or Travel Express and get the meet & greet package. You'll breeze through the loops easier than you would in the states.
Get TSA/Pre-Global Traveler, same as above, it greases the skids.

Good luck but be forewarned, there is no worse hunting addiction than Africa.

Couldn't agree more with this post and especially the addiction part. My first trip was definitely a once in a lifetime trip. I had the second trip booked before I left the outfitter camp. Its insanely fun.....

 

[snox801]

Hammer bullets BCs arent that great brother - don't make them something they are not. Its not the best of both worlds and their BCs are way over stated. I have never seen a lead bullet come undone - even when pushed hard. It takes a light bullet at high velocities with an crazy tight twist barrel. I too have tried about every bullet out there and I have never seen a bullet kill like a berger. I supposed it doesnt matter to you with all those super long shots you take in Michigan?

I can tell you you won't find a a frame or a partition that has a better bc than a hammer. And no I don't take a lot of long shots in Michigan 600 is my max but to do travel to Texas at least once a year and do some hunting out west where I can stretch it out. The bc's are not the best and they say that flat out. But I can tell you for certain rounds they are not bad either. I'm not sure what your issue with hammers are but I can tell you I shoot many more brands than just them. But I am very impressed with them. So as long as we are being wieners if you have never seen a bullet come apart you just don't have a good enough rifle to push them fast enough. I'm not saying that Berger's are bad. I have a high respect for guys like broz who swear by them and I would trust them with my hunts and equipment.
For the record I use nosler, hornady, hammer, cutting edge, gs customs, and a few others on occasions. And I will jump on the Berger train as soon as they come out with a high bc, cup core .375 around the 400gr size.

 

[snox801]

Whatever you decide, make sure that you take a look at and really study your targets anatomy. Your African animals vitals are further forward than American animals. If you shoot behind the shoulder you may end up in the guts. Most of your African animals should be shot above the front leg on a broadside shot. Whatever the angle, know where you need to put your projectile. It doesn't matter what bullet you use if you're sending them through the guts.

Yes I found this out after the fact on one of mine.
This is a thread I'm glad I found. I've always heard the Berger African thing but I take the word of some of the guys here who I know don't need to sell smoke to people. Just real world experience. And as said take what you feel best with. That's part of the fun of hunting using the equipment you have and how you want to use it.