300 Norma (or NMI) 230 Berger Hybrids real velocities

[Rflshootr]

Just for giggles, check out the old overlooked 308 Norma Mag on Quick Load.
Some things to think about....
A given barrel will only burn a given amount of powder, with everything else being equal...whether you burn 50 grains at a time or 100 grains at a time.
Then think about how much you will shoot it and how often.
Also, how much performance do you actually need to accomplish the task at hand. If you absolutely have to have 3000 fps, the 308 Norma probably won't be it.

 

[Chas1]

Just for giggles, check out the old overlooked 308 Norma Mag on Quick Load.
Some things to think about....
A given barrel will only burn a given amount of powder, with everything else being equal...whether you burn 50 grains at a time or 100 grains at a time.
Then think about how much you will shoot it and how often.
Also, how much performance do you actually need to accomplish the task at hand.

Agree. I got a 338 Allen Xpress since 2012 Max load 106grs RL33 under 300gr Bergers and at sea-level 3052 fps. Accuracy load 104.2grs RL33 2972 fps. To date about 350 rounds down the barrel and I figure the barrel probably won't burn out until +/- 1000 rounds. I don't get to the 850 yard range very often but the local range all the time so I'll burn out my 30-06 and 308 barrels before.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I'm not sure you'll burn out barrels faster whether your pushing bullets at 3000 or 3300 fps...but maybe so.

Would you not agree to push heavy bullets at max velocity you are going to have to burn more powder and/or hotter powder like N570 which would erode throats faster?

 

[RH300UM]

Would you not agree to push heavy bullets at max velocity you are going to have to burn more powder and/or hotter powder like N570 which would erode throats faster?

Not bashing in anyway. I'm always open to proven experience as a learning tool.
Is this proven with the 300 NM/NMI?

 

[Mike D Texas]

Not bashing in anyway. I'm always open to proven experience as a learning tool.
Is this proven with the 300 NM/NMI?

I don't know. I've not owned one. But powders like N570 for example are known to toast throats on heavier strings of fire. The kernels are also huge and said to damage further down the barrel as they burn their way down the barrel.

How much truth is there to it? I can't say. I may be able to in a year or so with my 264 Win Mag Improved because my preferred powder in it is N570.

 

[Chas1]

Would you not agree to push heavy bullets at max velocity you are going to have to burn more powder and/or hotter powder like N570 which would erode throats faster?

The larger the powder charge and smaller the bore diameter, the hotter and more concentrated the flame and the more likely a cartridge will be a barrel burner. Not sure it has to be a heavy bullet, but could be wrong.

 

[squeeeeze]

I'm wanting to build a 30 caliber magnum and I keep waffling back and forth over just sticking with a tried & true 300 Win Mag, throated long, 30 Nosler throated long or 300 Norma mag (or improved).

I ran some hypothetical numbers through Quickload, all using 230 Hybrids, N570 powder and a 26" barrel. For those of you that are familiar with QL I used the same weighting factor of .5 even though the Nosler and Norma are probably more overbore than the 300 Win Mag.

I was quite surprised to see how little difference there was in velocity.

• 300 Win Mag - 83.3 grains - expected velocity 2,940fps
• 30 Nosler - 88.4 grains - expected velocity 2987 fps (6.12% powder increase, 1.6% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma - 90.2 grains - expected velocity 2991fps (8.28% powder increase, 1.73% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma Mag Improved - 94.5 grains - expected velocity 3009 fps (13.45% powder increase, 2.35% velocity increase)

Keep in mind the 300 WM & the 300 Norma have a lower listed max pressure than the Nosler so I'm sure that contributes to their lower velocities.

I would like to hear from folks that have a 300 Norma or 300 NMI as to what real velocities your are seeing when using the 230 Hybrids.

I'm trying to decide if the modest velocity gain (calculated) is worth the extra cost of the Lapua receiver, brass and the recoil penalty over the old school 300 Win Mag.

If the Norma is more overbore and I change the weighting factor to .4, the spread jumps quite a bit. 300 NMI - 95.6 grains - expected velocity jumps to 3068fps (14.77% more powder, 4.35% velocity increase).

That's 128fps faster than the 300 Win Mag but at the expense of 12.3 more grains of powder.

Thoughts?

I too was wondering why not a 300 RUM in your options (that's what I've been leaning towards), but you seem to have good reasons.

I'm basically in the same dilemma minus the 300WM, and following your thread. Don't have anything .308 (other than a 300BO AR SBR) and have the itch for a bigger .308 To shoot the 208-230 grain bullets to 3000'+

 

[FUDD2.0]

I've had good luck with a 300prc I put together with a Old Savage Model112 action and a IBI 31" tube, 1:7 twist.
These test are barrel break in with new Hornady brass.
Fed215m
N570
Tested both the Berger 230s and Hornady 250 A-tips. Both very accurate. Decided on the 230s, couldn't find more 250 atips. Switched to Lapua brass and running just over 3050fps fed from 3.850" mag. Not sure what reamer they use? Pushed the 250s to nearly 3000fps, didn't see any tell-tell signs of pressure with either. I didn't push it more. Barrel has nearly 600rds through it. Seems ro sped up 50fps. Powder and bullets are from the same lot.

 

[nikeandros]

Thanks for that data. If I do the Norma it will definitely be an improved version but I'm looking at a 35° shoulder instead of a 40. I'm concerned about feeding that fat case with a 40° shoulder. I am also going to keep some taper in the case but not much.

I considered the PRC but like you said it doesn't offer much over a properly throated 300 WM or Nosler and I personally have no issue with belted cases. The 300 WM will by far be the cheapest to reload for and has a mind boggling amount of brass available. I can't really for the life of me understand why 30 Nosler brass costs so much more than 300WM brass but it's at least double the cost. And then the Norma is 50% again. The saving grace is this will be a low volume shooter so 100 pieces of brass will last me a long time.

I have a marvelous ( for me) rem700 long range installed on mdt tac21 in 300 win mag... 1:10 6 rifling... it always shoot su moa on multiple weigths bullets ( lots of work on reaload) and I never felt the necessity of e another long range rifle.. until. j tried 225 gn bullets.... ( always precise on the 300 win mag !! no complains ad all.. ) SO.. BETWEEN THE RUGER PR PRC . OR GOING ALL THE WAY UP FOR THE 338 LAPUA MAGNUM same rifle...
I END UP I end up .. buying the ruger.pr.. on 300 win mag..hahahahha
reason? THE 5 RIFLING AND THE 1:9 TWIST..... COAL 3.680.. AND A TIP 250 GR.. AT 2800 FPS... I' HAPPY AND BECAUSE I am a poor unter (and a bit cheaper too) .. spend less on reload cause with.2 300 win mag. thins are easier.. ( my 2 cents opinion. )

 

[7.62 Gunner]

What is the reason for the 30 nosler being your favourite there?

I feel it's about the perfect case capacity for velocity and barrel life, also the 35 degree shoulder has worked really good for me in a variety of cartridges.

your data is not worth looking at when compared to the others.
Try that same 570 you got in the PRC and run it instead of h1000 which is clearly slower in that round. You can't take one round and run one of the best powders for velocity then compare it to the improved version with a slower performing powder and say it's not worth it.
You can gather a ton of data form lots of people that clearly show a gain over the PRC when apples to apples. Similar to many AI like the .243 AI.
If it's worth it to mike is the question. It may not be, I was going off the assumption he was ok with improved versions since the norma was in that.
Plus he stated he may want to stay with the standard action.

Mile as for the norma I think those cases will really outshine the others if shooting day 250gr atip.

Uh did you look at the numbers where I went same same with 225 eldms?
I didn't use 570 in the 30 SM cuz it's hell on barrels, and I'm done with it at this point.
I tried several different bullet combos and none were a significant gain.
It's pretty funny seeing everyone post these HUGE velocities with a case that has 1 extra grain of capacity over the PRC..
I know what's happening
The 40 degree shoulder masks pressure signs and guys are throttling the hell out of it, ADG brass is stupid tough so primer pockets staying tight doesn't mean squat.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I have loaded for several of the Ryan Pierce built .300NMI 33°.
230s are the preferred projectile. 26" can get 3080-3120 and not be close to pressure. I loaded one with a 28" that was just under 3200.

 

[MallardAddict]

My 28" Hells Canyon Armory 300 NMI barrel shoots the 230 OTM and Retumbo at 3220 fps without pressure. Accuracy is a bit better at 3175 so that's where I load it.

I picked up 3 1x fired factory rounds off the ground at the range, fireformed them and have proceeded to shoot each of them 12 times with my 3175 load and they all still hold primers well.

Lots to like about the 300 Norma Imp.

 

[snox801]

I feel it's about the perfect case capacity for velocity and barrel life, also the 35 degree shoulder has worked really good for me in a variety of cartridges.

Uh did you look at the numbers where I went same same with 225 eldms?
I didn't use 570 in the 30 SM cuz it's hell on barrels, and I'm done with it at this point.
I tried several different bullet combos and none were a significant gain.
It's pretty funny seeing everyone post these HUGE velocities with a case that has 1 extra grain of capacity over the PRC..
I know what's happening
The 40 degree shoulder masks pressure signs and guys are throttling the hell out of it, ADG brass is stupid tough so primer pockets staying tight doesn't mean squat.

So your telling me nobody pushes with better brass? Get outta here. It's not crazy gains it's juts gains and it works the same as any way to look for pressure without the correct tools. Reloader shave done this for years with no issues.

 

[snox801]

Actual question. How does improving the case change how we read pressure.
Seems a lot of people crap on the Sherman's and keep repeating it but I can find posts of them in 300 PRC threads with loads very close to what the sm runs which would be that 1 gr powder.
I get if you don't like the sm. I have no reason to go to bat for them other than my pleasant experience that I've documented here.

7.62 so if you had one and didn't follow the normal reloading practice If finding pressure then backing off some. How did you know your 30 Sherman was at pressure?
Not being sarcastic I'm trying to figure out the logic.
Can't use quick load as that's juts a guideline just like looking for pressure on brass or primers.
I've noticed a lot of guy finding pressure in the 300prc by the primer. But I don't see you saying they are way over max.
Just curious how something that has worked for ages is no longer the proper why to find pressure.
If I had a PRC I would find it the same way.