300 Norma (or NMI) 230 Berger Hybrids real velocities

[matt_3479]

I think I have confirmed my decision to go with the 300 Norma Improved.

Would anyone have a few (3-5) 230 Hybrids they could spare so I can make some dummy cartridges to have my reamer made?

Please let me know.

I would message Ryan pierce or Alex wheeler as both have spent a lot of time with the Norma imp. Alex wheeler had a huge thread about jt somewhere

 

[VLD Pilot]

I would message Ryan pierce or Alex wheeler as both have spent a lot of time with the Norma imp. Alex wheeler had a huge thread about jt somewhere

Definitely Ryan Pierce.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I would message Ryan pierce or Alex wheeler as both have spent a lot of time with the Norma imp. Alex wheeler had a huge thread about jt somewhere

I've been talking to Ryan qute a bit.

 

[Tucker65]

I have a 300 Norma Imp. with a 35* shoulder. I'm shooting 215's @3150 with 94gr of N570. Overall length is 3.625 which gives it a .015 jump. Could push it faster but it shoots great there so I'm happy with it.

 

[6.5saum/300rum]

What about a 300 rum? I have a 26" barrel shooting the 230's at 2975 with h1000 so I would think you could do quite a bit faster with n570.

 

[Mike D Texas]

What about a 300 rum? I have a 26" barrel shooting the 230's at 2975 with h1000 so I would think you could do quite a bit faster with n570.

Not interested in the RUM. Case length is already so long the even with CIP+ mags Bullet seats deep into the case.

 

[snox801]

I'd say 3100+ is easy. 3200 is pushing it.

I'm at 3160-80fps right now with a 214 hammer. Looks like the 215 Berger has a bit less engraving on pressure.
I obviously can't provide real pressure as most of us can't.
I just followed standard loading process.
First sign of pressure i backed off. Did my ladders. My brothers was made exactly the same and he also ended up at 3160fps doing the same thing. So it's not like I'm pushing the limits either.

I've owned and compared a 300 wm, 300prc, 30 SM (waste of time for 1 grain improvement), 30 NM, and now a 30 Nos.
All had 26" custom throated barrels except my 30 Nos which is 24".

Here's my data just before pressure signs showed up.
300 PRC 225 eldm H1000- 2890
300 Prc 215 N570- 3025

30 SM 215 H1000- 3000
30 SM 225 eldm H1000- 2930

300 NM 230 hybrid retumbo- 2970
300 NM 215 h1000- 3050

30 Nos (24" barrel) 220 LRHT h1000- 3000
30 Nos 245 berger H1000- 2850
30 nos 225 eldm h1000- 2950

Unless you're chasing ultimate velocity the 30 Nos is my favorite without a doubt.
ADG case capacity is around 100-101 grains while the 300 NM lapua is 103, the prc is 95 grains with ADG, and the 30 SM got to a whopping 96..
The 300NM case stretches a stupid amount and needed trimmed every other firing, I'd do the 300 NMI 40 degree shoulder version if you're set on that case.
And if you don't want to handload the 300 PRC makes the most sense, although it's really not any faster than a 300 WM.

your data is not worth looking at when compared to the others.
Try that same 570 you got in the PRC and run it instead of h1000 which is clearly slower in that round. You can't take one round and run one of the best powders for velocity then compare it to the improved version with a slower performing powder and say it's not worth it.
You can gather a ton of data form lots of people that clearly show a gain over the PRC when apples to apples. Similar to many AI like the .243 AI.
If it's worth it to mike is the question. It may not be, I was going off the assumption he was ok with improved versions since the norma was in that.
Plus he stated he may want to stay with the standard action.

Mile as for the norma I think those cases will really outshine the others if shooting day 250gr atip.

 

[snox801]

Nice choice mike.
I've really liked the idea of the NMI for quite some time.
Can't wait to see what you get out of it.

 

[rellison312]

I'm wanting to build a 30 caliber magnum and I keep waffling back and forth over just sticking with a tried & true 300 Win Mag, throated long, 30 Nosler throated long or 300 Norma mag (or improved).

I ran some hypothetical numbers through Quickload, all using 230 Hybrids, N570 powder and a 26" barrel. For those of you that are familiar with QL I used the same weighting factor of .5 even though the Nosler and Norma are probably more overbore than the 300 Win Mag.

I was quite surprised to see how little difference there was in velocity.

• 300 Win Mag - 83.3 grains - expected velocity 2,940fps
• 30 Nosler - 88.4 grains - expected velocity 2987 fps (6.12% powder increase, 1.6% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma - 90.2 grains - expected velocity 2991fps (8.28% powder increase, 1.73% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma Mag Improved - 94.5 grains - expected velocity 3009 fps (13.45% powder increase, 2.35% velocity increase)

Keep in mind the 300 WM & the 300 Norma have a lower listed max pressure than the Nosler so I'm sure that contributes to their lower velocities.

I would like to hear from folks that have a 300 Norma or 300 NMI as to what real velocities your are seeing when using the 230 Hybrids.

I'm trying to decide if the modest velocity gain (calculated) is worth the extra cost of the Lapua receiver, brass and the recoil penalty over the old school 300 Win Mag.

If the Norma is more overbore and I change the weighting factor to .4, the spread jumps quite a bit. 300 NMI - 95.6 grains - expected velocity jumps to 3068fps (14.77% more powder, 4.35% velocity increase).

That's 128fps faster than the 300 Win Mag but at the expense of 12.3 more grains of powder.

Thoughts?

300 Weatherby. I'm getting 3,200 fps with 180 g Barnes TTSX, 24" Bartlein CF barrel, off the shelf Weatherby ammo.

 

[waveslayer]

Ryan Pierce 300 NMI
26 inch Proof barrel
N570 91.5 .030 OTL
CCI primer
5 shot average 3087 fps
ES 9
SD 4

It's airways interesting to see numbers.

I'm using a 26" MRAD using with only 87.8 grains of N570, federal 215 primer .030 off the lands getting 3028 fps.

You are a using more powder, 3.7 grains more to get 60 fps more... goes to show how important load work up is

 

[esorensen]

I'm wanting to build a 30 caliber magnum and I keep waffling back and forth over just sticking with a tried & true 300 Win Mag, throated long, 30 Nosler throated long or 300 Norma mag (or improved).

I ran some hypothetical numbers through Quickload, all using 230 Hybrids, N570 powder and a 26" barrel. For those of you that are familiar with QL I used the same weighting factor of .5 even though the Nosler and Norma are probably more overbore than the 300 Win Mag.

I was quite surprised to see how little difference there was in velocity.

• 300 Win Mag - 83.3 grains - expected velocity 2,940fps
• 30 Nosler - 88.4 grains - expected velocity 2987 fps (6.12% powder increase, 1.6% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma - 90.2 grains - expected velocity 2991fps (8.28% powder increase, 1.73% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma Mag Improved - 94.5 grains - expected velocity 3009 fps (13.45% powder increase, 2.35% velocity increase)

Keep in mind the 300 WM & the 300 Norma have a lower listed max pressure than the Nosler so I'm sure that contributes to their lower velocities.

I would like to hear from folks that have a 300 Norma or 300 NMI as to what real velocities your are seeing when using the 230 Hybrids.

I'm trying to decide if the modest velocity gain (calculated) is worth the extra cost of the Lapua receiver, brass and the recoil penalty over the old school 300 Win Mag.

If the Norma is more overbore and I change the weighting factor to .4, the spread jumps quite a bit. 300 NMI - 95.6 grains - expected velocity jumps to 3068fps (14.77% more powder, 4.35% velocity increase).

That's 128fps faster than the 300 Win Mag but at the expense of 12.3 more grains of powder.

Thoughts?

Now that Lapua makes 300WM brass, no reason to move away from it. Several other boutique brass manufacturers out there, so there's other options. I have had a RUM for decades, but recently went with the 300 PRC. 82.5 of VV N570/215M/Lapua (max in my rifle) got 3005 fps with the 245 Berger and a sub 1/4" three shot group during workup. 30" 8 twist. The PRC just seems to sit at mag length with the long VLD type bullets better. Still not doing anything the 300 WM wont do. The RUM is a whole different critter, as that 30" barrel will easily walk away 200+ fps faster with same bullet and RL 33 powder. Kind of ridiculous with those long barrels and a 9" TBAC can hanging off the end, but the performance (especially at my altitudes) makes me giggle. We love to split hairs in this hobby. I shoot the PRC way more than the RUM. The extra performance of the RUM comes at the expense of significantly increased barrel wear.

 

[TBell]

I know you want data for the 230s but I loaded the 220 hybrids with retumbo in my 300norma w/26" barrel and was only getting 2875. That was a 1/2 moa hand load but it was only maybe 1.5 grains from a max load. I'm hear others get better velocity but I think with my chamber/Sammi throat and barrel I just had a slow rifle.

You might try a product called "Sweet Shooter" to clean your barrel and swab it right before shooting for several outings. I gained about 100-125 FPS and the clean up is effortless.

Might Put it across to others but I've used exclusively on all my rifles and pistols for 15 years pretty pleased

I know you want data for the 230s but I loaded the 220 hybrids with retumbo in my 300norma w/26" barrel and was only getting 2875. That was a 1/2 moa hand load but it was only maybe 1.5 grains from a max load. I'm hear others get better velocity but I think with my chamber/Sammi throat and barrel I just had a slow rifle.

 

[J Brady]

Hey Mike from Texas, I have some 230s you can have. Send me your address.

 

[snox801]

It's airways interesting to see numbers.

I'm using a 26" MRAD using with only 87.8 grains of N570, federal 215 primer .030 off the lands getting 3028 fps.

You are a using more powder, 3.7 grains more to get 60 fps more... goes to show how important load work up is

Yep my brothers lapua improved uses a great deal more than most.
I remember a recent post were someone was getting a crazy amount more than normal in a 300 PRC with very high speeds to boot.
Load work is important