28 nosler.

[hemiford]

Wikipedia states the 8mmRM has a case capacity of 99 gr
(doesn't state it for the 7stw), and the 26Nos is 93 gr.
Is Wikipedia mistaken ?

 

[meatyrem]

First let me correct my mistake. The Nosler family is based on the RUM case only in standard 30-06 length.

Engineering 101 is onto the crux of this thread: if Savage or any other major player picks up this cartridge it will overwhelm Remington's RUM family. To wit: if you want a RUM you get a Rem 700. But if Savage or Ruger,Tikka, Browning etc. pick up these chamberings they will dominate their calibers. My Savage 116 in 375 Ruger ships from the factory with the DBM stamped "300 WM". Same with the spare DBM I ordered. It is possible for Savage to simply screw in the properly chambered barrel and join the club. Therefore the "hole" may be a standard length super-mag family of cartridges that an average hunter who buys only factory ammo (not a reloader) can afford and find what he needs. As a side note: the Savage DBM's I have measure 3.555" inside and 375 Ruger ammo loaded to a COAL of 3.450" feed and function just fine as long as the bullets don't jam the rifling @ 3.450" COAL.

As to the case size difference the 7mm RUM has the shoulder/body junction pushed almost 1/4" (0.221") further forward than the 28 Nosler. Head & shoulder diameters are essentially the same for both cartridges. 7mm RUM powder capacity is > 28 Nosler. When Lapua developed the 338 LM as a 21st Century Sniper cartridge the original loading did not meet the criteria set down. But using conventional case forming limited the operating pressure to 65Kpsi. So by employing a harder case head by altering the differential case annealing they fabricated a case capable of operating at a higher (67-72Kpsi) chamber pressure with a stronger/harder case head and primer pocket . Hence the LM runs neck and neck with the larger capacity RUM family of cases by using ever so slightly higher chamber pressures. When I read this for the first time I wondered how long it would take others to use this advantage to up the game. Seems Nosler missed an excellent opportunity to one up everyone (except Lapua) else. More's the pity.

So to the OP, 28 Nosler can fill a hole by providing excellent ballistics from standard length actions. But it ain't no 7mm RUM and it ain't far from one....

KB

It lists the 26/28 nosler at 93 grains of water compared to 110 of the Rum.

 

[meatyrem]

Then from what I see it is neck and neck with the 7mm Dakota and that is under the rum by 7-10 grains less.

 

[Engineering101]

I have 26 Nosler brass fire formed. It holds 101.6 gr H2O. My 300 RUM Rem brass holds 116.0 gr H2O.

 

[Kennibear]

Using Engineering 101's hard numbers for case capacity and assuming the accepted standard of % velocity increase = 1/4 of % increase case capacity then the 28 Nosler gives up 3.54% velocity to the 7mm RUM (or about 114fps @ 3200fps muzzle velocity), apples to apples.

That may be an acceptable trade but would require 4" more barrel to make up the difference. It does drop the 28 Nosler lower on the Barrel Burner Index but Nosler's claim of "most powerful 7mm" is consistent with their Ballistic Coefficients....

KB

 

[WildRose]

Using Engineering 101's hard numbers for case capacity and assuming the accepted standard of % velocity increase = 1/4 of % increase case capacity then the 28 Nosler gives up 3.54% velocity to the 7mm RUM (or about 114fps @ 3200fps muzzle velocity), apples to apples.

That may be an acceptable trade but would require 4" more barrel to make up the difference. It does drop the 28 Nosler lower on the Barrel Burner Index but Nosler's claim of "most powerful 7mm" is consistent with their Ballistic Coefficients....

KB

I really don't see how they can make such a claim as long as the 7mm RUM and 7mm STW are both being made by the big production companies like Remington and Winchester and commercially produced ammo is available from multiple sources.

I've been very happy with Nosler's products for a long time but I'm also a big believer in "Truth in Advertising" so this claim really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Blacktail63]

I saw a cut away picture of the 175gr ABLR seated at 3.34 on the "fire" and it got my wheels turning so I did a little 8th grade science experiment today. I did a side by side comparison with cut aways. Don't worry I wasn't cutting any brass that was as expensive as gold. Midway had 26 Nosler brass on sale awhile back for $40 and I purchased a pile of it. As they always say a picture is worth a thousand words. This shows seating depth comparison of 3.34" and 3.60".


I also did a water capacity test at both seating depths. The empty case weighed 270gr. At 3.34" the case weighed 359gr(89gr.net) and seated at 3.60" it weighed 364.6gr(95.6gr. net). A 6.5gr of water difference or a little less than 7%. That's about the same % increase I get with my AI cases. I don't have Q/L but I bet that would be about 100FPS difference. I think that running this cartridge with heavy for caliber bullets you'd be better off at 3.60". I'm going to run my 28 Nosler throated for 3.60" or longer. I also measured a 7RUM and came up with 102.4gr of water. These measurements were done with175gr Nosler ABLR seated to 3.34" and 3.60".

 

[meatyrem]

That's where I come in on this WR.
I don't have a problem with the 28 nosler. I have a problem with it being built up more than what it really is.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

That's where I come in on this WR.
I don't have a problem with the 28 nosler. I have a problem with it being built up more than what it really is.

And you think the 30-30 wasn't built up?
or the 45-70?
or the 7mm STW?

Every cartridge has had it's share of hype, cult following and more attributes than physics can support.

Please expand on "built up more than what it really is".

 

[WildRose]

And you think the 30-30 wasn't built up?
or the 45-70?
or the 7mm STW?

Every cartridge has had it's share of hype, cult following and more attributes than physics can support.

Please expand on "built up more than what it really is".

Well it's certainly not the most powerful commercially produced 7mm cartridge which is what Nosler is claiming and is patently false.

Bend, Ore. – January 2, 2015 – One year ago, Nosler introduced their first namesake cartridge to the world. Since then, the 26 Nosler has achieved such renowned success that adding another member to the cartridge family became an obvious decision. Please welcome the 28 Nosler® as the most powerful 7mm cartridge commercially available today... .

http://www.nosler.com/news-and-articles/2015/1/19/the-28-nosler

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Well it's certainly not the most powerful commercially produced 7mm cartridge which is what Nosler is claiming and is patently false.

THE 28 NOSLER®

Well of course not.

Gotta say your own product is "best" even if it's not.

Winchester's done it plenty so has Remington. That's just the American way.

 

[WildRose]

Well of course not.

Gotta say your own product is "best" even if it's not.

Winchester's done it plenty so has Remington. That's just the American way.

No, it's simply dishonest.

 

[meatyrem]

Well it's certainly not the most powerful commercially produced 7mm cartridge which is what Nosler is claiming and is patently false.

THE 28 NOSLER®

Thanks Wildrose which was my point.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

No, it's simply dishonest.

When have you know sales and marketing to be honest. LOL

Remington always downloaded the 7mmRUM below it's capabilities, perhaps they are using the "plausibility" argument. The 28 is more "powerful" than a 7mmSTW.