260 Rem Vs. 6.5-06

[RandyinVa]

Velocity is most certainly one measure of performance.

If it didn't matter at all we wouldn't keep trying to find the ideal case size for a given caliber.

One of the primary ways we determine if a given round is adequate for a given species at a given range is by looking at the energy at the desired range. Energy is a function of mass, velocity, and ballistic coefficient.

Velocity without accuracy is of no consequence.

 

[RandyinVa]

My .308 Win does that...Regularly.

Also, I do agree that the .260 AI is an exceptional cartridge, and one that I would like to build someday, but I don't think it's going to really beat the 6.5-06 AI in performance.

Both cartridges can be equally accurate so that's not really a factor that you can consider in performance, IMO. Just like with a car, performance means HP, TQ, and how fast and efficiently it gets from point A to point B. The 6.5-06 AI is going to be faster, flatter, hit harder, retain more more downrange energy, and do it all with only about 15 more grains of powder. And if you factor in cost, brass is almost as cheap (and can be cheaper if you buy .270 Win brass to form).

That being said, I am not saying either one is "better" cartridge than the other, because I like both cartridges, I'm just looking at it from a purely performance standpoint.

You need to reread my post. Your .308 shoots a .308 hole with a single hole. Mine did .268 with 3 bullets through it. What does your .308 do regularly. Does it shoot a .312 3 shot or what?

 

[WildRose]

Velocity without accuracy is of no consequence.

What makes you think they are mutually exclusive?

 

[MudRunner2005]

You need to reread my post. Your .308 shoots a .308 hole with a single hole. Mine did .268 with 3 bullets through it. What does your .308 do regularly. Does it shoot a .312 3 shot or what?

I caught that "including the bullet diameter" part after I had posted, but was unable to edit the post. And yes, I have shot .313" 3-shot groups with it before. And regularly shoot groups under .4" including the bullet diameter.

 

[RandyinVa]

What makes you think they are mutually exclusive?

The ARE exclusive. You can have repeatable accuracy with small groups with low velocity, 6 PPC comes to mind. Velocity without accuracy is available to anyone that wants a wizbang noisemaker.

 

[MudRunner2005]

The ARE exclusive. You can have repeatable accuracy with small groups with low velocity, 6 PPC comes to mind. Velocity without accuracy is available to anyone that wants a wizbang noisemaker.

Yes, but accuracy without velocity is useless for hunting.

For a hunting rifle, velocity, energy, consistency, accuracy (shot placement) are all equal parts of the equation for a successful shot when taking a game animal. With benchrest shooting, group size is all that matters.

Is this a hunting rifle, or is this a benchrest rifle. Because if it's strictly a BR rifle, then velocity doesn't mean anything until you start getting past about 500 yards when when wind-bucking affects and BC's really start meaning something.

 

[WildRose]

The ARE exclusive. You can have repeatable accuracy with small groups with low velocity, 6 PPC comes to mind. Velocity without accuracy is available to anyone that wants a wizbang noisemaker.

I wouldn't even respond to this if not for the fact newbies to this site and this sport might read your post and think it was accurate.

No, they are not mutually exclusive, if they were we'd have no one shooting sub MOA rifles in large cased calibers.

This isn't a benchrest site where shooting microscopic groups with five and ten round strings is the goal.

This is a hunting site, specifically the "long range hunting" website where the goal is to produce sub MOA results with calibers that are adequate for shooting everything from prairie dogs with .204's to Elk and Moose at a thousand yards or beyond shooting the super 30's and 338's.

Velocity most certainly does not prevent accuracy, nor does shooting heavy for caliber bullets.

Cold bore repeatability is the is the primary goal here and to a lesser extent 3 shot groups because the odds of getting more than 3 shots off before your target disappears completely are slim.

Even in the BR game, velocity isn't the enemy, if it were everyone would be shooting the slowest load possible.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

Wild is correct, velocity is not the enemy... I have a Borden built slightly different 6ppc, it has a 26 inch barrel compared to the usual 20-21...I had it built for groundhogmatches here in the east where the long shots are 500 yards, most don't consider that 67-68 grain bullets long range but when driven around 3400+ it will hold it's own even at 500 and keep it's usual quarters or less at 100-200-300 moa...it will shoot much better than I can see that's for sure and with velocities that you don't see at most be marches, plus it's no where near max and could go one heck of a lot faster but at the expense of case life and throat erosion. So don't worry about speed killing accuracy.

 

[WildRose]

Wild is correct, velocity is not the enemy... I have a Borden built slightly different 6ppc, it has a 26 inch barrel compared to the usual 20-21...I had it built for groundhogmatches here in the east where the long shots are 500 yards, most don't consider that 67-68 grain bullets long range but when driven around 3400+ it will hold it's own even at 500 and keep it's usual quarters or less at 100-200-300 moa...it will shoot much better than I can see that's for sure and with velocities that you don't see at most be marches, plus it's no where near max and could go one heck of a lot faster but at the expense of case life and throat erosion. So don't worry about speed killing accuracy.

That's pretty much my experience as well. I've been shooting a .17 Rem and .220 swift at prairie dogs and predators since the 70's and the .204 Ruger since shortly after it came out. With the little .204 I've taken a coyote at 830 yards.

It was kind of funny, I could see the impact but at first he didn't react and then his head wobbled a couple of times and he fell over stone dead. That was without a doubt the very edge of what I think that caliber is capable of especially since it was only a 32gr pill.

 

[Reno1]

Over on the fire, a well respected guy there says that he is getting 2800 with the 170 Berger in a 22" 270. Sounds higher than I expected and may have been a fast barrel but if it's the case then a 1-8 26" tube would be nice and still able to shoot all the factory in a pinch.

A .270 what?

 

[MudRunner2005]

A .270 what?

With those velocities with that weight bullet, I would assume he has a regular .270 Winchester.

 

[Reno1]

With those velocities with that weight bullet, I would assume he has a regular .270 Winchester.

Well I've got a 24" 270 Win w/ a standard barrel and just bought some of those 170 pills and would be quite content to get 2800 out of them but would like to do it safely.

I've got IMR4350 and RL17 handy but have heard good results from H1000. Going to likely re-barrel to 6.5 Sherman anyway but still don't want to get too stupid on pressure trying to force these 170's on my existing rifle. Just want to see what they can do with what I have. Elevation here is about 4300' and I know with a 10 twist it won't be optimal.

 

[Liberator]

WOW ! Finally finished reading the whole thread. Great info. I love my 260's. I am building a 6.5 06 AI. To far along now to change but a 6.5 Sherman sounds like it might be next. After all, I've got grand kids that will need rifles. Keep shooting ! [and voting] Chuck

 

[Nomosendero]

With those velocities with that weight bullet, I would assume he has a regular .270 Winchester.

Correct, a regular .270. I don't think my 270 would do that, as it is slower than what other folks routinely get with their 270.

I know that few long range shooters use the 270 Weatherby but it is tempting to put a 1-8 twist 27" 270 Wea. tube on one of my 700's. Why not ?