225 Eldm and 230 atip for Hunting

[teejj]

I also think we need some consensus on what "failure" means. Some people call it failure when a bullet doesn't exit. Some consider it failure and wasted energy when it does exit. Some consider it failure if it doesn't retain all its weight. Some consider it failure if it doesn't fragment violently. Some people complain of bullet failure…after autopsying a dead animal killed by said bullet.

In regards to that hammer recovered from a black bear…it failed to perform as intended. HOWEVER…there's more to this story. The bullet is still very visibly deformed. There would be decently broad wounding from this kind of tumble. If the bear was found dead days later that might make sense. But if the bear only succumbed to its injury's days after being shot it's plainly indicative it wasn't shot in a very fatal spot to begin with.

Heck you could "ice pick" wound a bear or any other critter on this continent with a .308 FMJ load and if it was double lunged, heart shot, or hit in the liver there's no way it survives for days after. Hours maybe. MAYBE.

I thought for sure you'd quote John Nosler. But you're 100% right.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

Bear was shot in front in arm pit and horse shoed itself up into bone of shoulder blade.. if the blade wasnt there bullet would of exited. Bear was killed few days later being shot again. Different gun

 

[Calvin45]

I think its more common then people think. I think there tipped bullet will help it but time will tell. There is no perfect bullet. Ive had bergers pencil through. And explode on impact. But ive had many many perform as supposed too

I think the new tipped design has a heck of a lot more to do with solving this potential problem than it does to do with improving bc. The bcs on these new hht bullets aren't better enough than the old designs to justify changing in my opinion. But if they broaden the velocity window for optimal performance and ensure that bent tips like this don't happen then that's a win (and more important than bc too)

 

[Barehandlineman11]

I personally want all the energy dumped in the cavity. Pass through is just a plus.

 

[Calvin45]

Bear was shot in front in arm pit and horse shoed itself up into bone of shoulder blade.. if the blade wasnt there bullet would of exited. Bear was killed few days later being shot again. Different gun

Okay that makes good sense to me actually. My dad lost an elk that way with a .30-30 years ago, deflected off the scapula and travelled up the rib cage instead of into the thoracic cavity.

They did find it the next day…but the coyotes and ravens had already eaten most of
It.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

I think the new tipped design has a heck of a lot more to do with solving this potential problem than it does to do with improving bc. The bcs on these new hht bullets aren't better enough than the old designs to justify changing in my opinion. But if they broaden the velocity window for optimal performance and ensure that bent tips like this don't happen then that's a win (and more important than bc too)

I agree i just dont like that they wont admit it is happening

 

[Barehandlineman11]

Other one was on a deer but nobody took pics since follow up shot it was dead and wasnt big deal. The 75 yard center punch kinda made guy mad

 

[6.5saum/300rum]

I personally want all the energy dumped in the cavity. Pass through is just a plus.

So are the 230 A tips your go to bullet for elk and deer? I'm curious because I'm going to start load development this weekend on a 30 nosler for elk.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

I've pretty much converted over too the a tip except in my lapuas for some reason lapua ai wont shoot the 300 a tip. Ive tried in 4 now and i know a buddy with same thing. Now i use it in my 33xc and the 390 in the 37xc. Im chambering a 300 norma next week for myself 28" proof too shoot the 250's. But no doubt is the 230 a awesome bullet.

 

[6.5saum/300rum]

I've pretty much converted over to the a tip except in my lapuas for some reason lapua ai wont shoot the 300 a tip. Ive tried in 4 now and i know a buddy with same thing. Now i use it in my 33xc and the 390 in the 37xc. Im chambering a 300 norma next week for myself 28" proof to shoot the 250's. But no doubt is the 230 an awesome bullet.

I'm curious about your load last year for the 4 elk? Are they sensitive to jump in your experience?

 

[Barehandlineman11]

1 300 norma improved 3106mv 740 yards .027 jump

2 30 nosler 310yards 3036 mv .009 jump
3 same gun 575 yards
4 same gun 1110 yards
Only thing I've noticed is most like it somewhere close to lands and some jammed and rarely huge jump like .040+

 

[Mike Matteson]

Ethics are personal. Your ethics may or may not reflect. Doesn't mean one is right and onebis wrong. You are welcome to believe what you believe and that's great. You have. made a choice. That ok. Someone may prefer another choice. I can say I have seen more animals get away because of poor marksmanship than I can say got away because of the type of bullet used. I think it's more ethical to be able to make good shots vs the bullet type used.

That's right get it where it count's. Miss place bullets don't work well, I don't care how heavy they are. Most of my elk that I have taken with 165gr bullet out to about 500yds. All but one were one shot kills. The one that I didn't was I didn't place the shot correctly.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

Not a 230 a tip but a 250 a tip bull moose 75 yards this was the bullets stopping point shot through the offset shoulder. All i found was the aluminum tip. This was 2980 mv out of norma improved close range.

 

[Calvin45]

Not a 230 a tip but a 250 a tip bull moose 75 yards this was the bullets stopping point shot through the offset shoulder. All i found was the aluminum tip. This was 2980 mv out of norma improved close range.

Wow! Considering the impact velocity that's pretty dang impressive, to me anyway. Did it punch both shoulders? Or was this an angling shot through soft stuff that smashed the offside shoulder only?

Sometime in the future I'd like to get an 8 twist 300 RUM with this bullet in mind…