223 vs 221 fb

[del2les]

I had several 221s, then discovered the use of Blue Dot powder in the 223 for ground squirrels:

40g V max with 12.0g of Blue Dot is 3000 fps
40g V max with 14.3 is a safe working max load at 3200 fps in my rifle

Much less cleaning involved with Blue dot, in fact every 600 rounds or so. A friend went 900 rounds on his barrel in between cleanings.

Brass for the 221 is a horrible mess to get involved with, especially if you have a good custom reamer.

I ditched the 221 Fire balls and several of the 22 K Hornets also after being so successful in the field with the blue dot loads.

A lot of shooters miss out on loads like these. Since the 80's, I've used powders like Unique, Blue Dot, 2400, Lil'Gun, etc to make lighter bullet loads in 222's and 223's that easily duplicate or exceed their lesser volume cousins and run a little cooler for high volume shooting. My old Lyman Cast Bullet Manual gave a lot of good starting data to play with.

Not only can one easily duplicate the smaller 22 cals using pistol powders, but it is easy to do the same with larger bores like the 30's and larger.

Edit) I'll add that using a 223 in a faster twist like a 1/9" allows one to use not only the light weights at higher speeds, but also allows the use the higher BC bullets like 69 or 75's for better long range action on those winder days. My 26" tubes with 1/9 twist have no problem stabilizing Hornady's 75BTHP and the old AMAX.

 

[warrbuk]

I have never shot

Im wanting to build a new varmint rifle for prarie dogs, thinking the 221fireball would be a good one but 223 components are everywhere. Any 221fb shooters in here? Will I regret it?

you have had lots of different answers to your questions as well as work arounds (blue dot loads)

My way of looking at it is simple. I do not shoot prairie dogs as I live in CA.

I have not got the levels of accuracy, low SD's and velocity I prefer from fast burning powders. So I am more conventional in my reloading

I shoot the alfalfa fields for ground squirrels like one of the previous posts indicated.

When its real good I will shoot 600-800 rounds a day. It has not been like that for me the last 10 years as I have only gotten up to shoot 1 trip of 3-4 days.

When shooting is high volume is run my 221 FB, I can shoot 250-300 rounds between cleanings and its slow to heat up.

If it's slow shooting I roll with a 223 or my 223 AI. I quickly clean every 100-150 rounds.
Usually every 100

For me it's about the volume of shooting.

 

[VinceMule]

Another issue is if a guy is hunting fox and bob cats not wanting to tear up the hides. The blue dot loads in the 223 are very handy for this application. I shot Blue Dot with 55s at 2650 fps out of a std 700 sporter in 223, which is a lot quieter also. This of course Is short range shooting. 40g Speer Spire points are a high velocity bullet that worked excellent in a 22 K hornet Ruger 77. I could touch the lands with this bullet and still use the magazine. in the 223, Tthe 40g Speer proved excellent on fox and bob cat up close with blue dot at 2800 fps out of the 223. Around 10g of Blue Dot in the 221 FB with the 40g Speer would work the same out of the 221 Repeater.

I killed a lot of coyotes with the 223 using blue dot loads, and traded off a lot of other Boutique rifles. We were riding gaited horses, and hunting coyotes in the backcountry of Az. We could cover 11 miles in an hour, minimum. We would ride till we saw coyotes who paid absolutely no attention to the horses unless we were talking. We would ride 300 yards in the direction that the coyotes came FROM, hobble the horses, start hand calling. The coyotes felt safe running full speed in the direction that they had just covered ground on, we slaughtered the coyotes. I carried two loads, Blue Dot, and a load of Benchmark, cci 450 with 55g sierra doing 3450fps in a 700. If we were tracking a lion, then we put in full power loads or in open terrain where shots were longer. Our average shot was 80 yards or so with a few shots going to 350.

It is hard to relate to the average guy how using so much less powder extends the barrel life, probably 5x or close to it.

 

[TigerOnThe Hill]

Post #11

I reiterate, reading is fundamental.

View attachment 580918
View attachment 580919

1994, I bought 500 pieces of Remington 221 Fireball then turned around and bought another 1,000 piece of the same Remington stock. It's finally down to the final reloads so I'm replacing it since it's currently available. I absolutely refuse to buy any components labeled Nosler, significantly over priced and under delivered.

The 221 Fireball may not have the legs that other, larger capacity cartridges have but the accuracy is excellent, reloading is simple and there are a variety of bullets available. The recoil is superb for novice and small stature shooters as well as long days in the varmint fields. Way back when, a couple of us actually shot the 37 grain Match VLD bullets to 1,000 yards just because we could. No wind of course...

However, the 53 gr. Match bullets have been reasonably priced and available when I need them. Seated over VVN-110, I get a full case and all the powder burns. This is a drawback with the 221 Fireball, achieving an efficient burn in the ever popular shorter barrels.

There is an excellent range of cartridges and bullets for shooting varmints.

Enjoy the search!

Good to see we're both fans of the 221 Fireball.

No doubt reading is fundamental. I read your earlier post, although it doesn't indicate where the pic came from. I'll make a few clarifications on my post. It would've been more accurate for me to say, "I don't remember the last time I saw it 'reasonably priced in stock at the places I frequent.'" I was on a notification list at Midway so long but to no avail that I finally gave up and had my name removed for notification. II also think Nosler stuff is mostly overpriced, but I've found some good prices watching for blems and sales. The last buy I made of Nosler 221 brass was "only" $84/100 w/ free shipping. That's much less than $115/100 with unknown shipping charges in your screen shot. I'm glad you like Remington brass for the Fireball. I've found Nosler brass (as well as the Midway store brand "Dogtown brass made by Nosler) to be high quality. Although it's not as good a Lapua, in my experience it's better than Remington, Hornady and Winchester. At this time, it's still your right to decide what you buy. Perhaps I'll come back to Remington some day, but if given the choice between overpriced Nosler (that I believe is better quality) vs very overpriced Remington, I'll go w/ the Nosler.

 

[sable tireur]

The Remington .221 Fireball brass ad is from the Remington website against the suggestion that .221 Fireball brass is unavailable.

As to quality discussions, opinions will always vary, especially these days with so many having little to no background yet having strong opinions with likes and dislikes. You are most certainly entitled to choose the manufacturer you prefer, it's your money.

You are correct though, I will never buy any more Nosler products because they are over priced and under delivered quality-wise. It's the mixing in of the Nosler Blems, Blemished and Overruns which distorts the pricing. I prefer to either wait for the brass I want to spend money on or find another cartridge with available brass to shoot. Nosler will never be in my mix.

The .221 Remington Fireball brass is fine for moderate use suited to these small caliber, small case volume cartridges. This is not a competition cartridge and yet will still perform in the number of reloads for the price when realistic loads are applied. It works.

Enjoy!

 

[VinceMule]

I have a mag box for a 221 FB, Rem 700 if anyone needs one to convert a std 700 222 or 223 to a fire ball.

 

[Goofy]

Im wanting to build a new varmint rifle for prarie dogs, thinking the 221fireball would be a good one but 223 components are everywhere. Any 221fb shooters in here? Will I regret it?

I've been shootin' a 221 for 30+ years. It has been my favorite, and I like trying new things. Been shootin" the 20 VT as well as the 17 FB. The past few years, been using the 17 more than any other for PD. Have 2 221s, 2 20 VT, 2 17 FB. All shoot great. I have some extra Nosler 17 FB brass if you decide to go that way.

 

[VinceMule]

Small cases are an addiction. The 17 Ackley Hornet and 17 Mach 4 are doll babies! With a little work, the 17 Javelina is a fast case with 25's, and I would sure love to get my hands on some 30g.

 

[sable tireur]

Back before the .17 Fireball was a commercial offering, a few of us bought .221 Remington (pre-Fireball) and necked it down to use as the .17 Mach IV. The popularity of .17 caliber cartridges grew with the advent of this wildcat. Good brass, easy conversion and super results. Little recoil, great for youngsters.

 

[del2les]

Small cases are an addiction. The 17 Ackley Hornet and 17 Mach 4 are doll babies! With a little work, the 17 Javelina is a fast case with 25's, and I would sure love to get my hands on some 30g.

Have you tried Montana Mize to see if he has any of the 30gr Golds in stock? 254-784-9533

 

[del2les]

Here's a few of the old/newer Blue Dot loads in 222 and 223 using the Speer 40gr SP and the 40gr NBT when I was still using moly on several varmint bullets. A lot of shooting per pound of powder for those 250yd or so and under ranges, and its cooler with less wear.

 

[DoctorPMN]

"Seafire" on 24hourcampfire passed away 6/2/2024.

 

[VinceMule]

We are diminished!

 

[cjsheely]

I pack a bolt action .223/556 most times I go out. I have two 5 gallon buckets of brass, so it makes sense. I have made some long shots with this setup. I have friends with 221 furballs. They do all right. Don't know about brass availability.