223 vs 221 fb

[VinceMule]

You Eastern folks have no idea what high volume shooting is. We were on Alfalfa fields where a 550 yard walking irrigation arm covered a 1200 yard square field. Estimates were that there were 250,000 ground squirrels per field. We would shoot up to 1200 rounds of centerfire per day, each shooter. We never moved the truck, most days. We had a dozen fields like this to shoot. Farmers were really being hurt. The day started off shooting jack rabbits, then the squirrels moved in.

Our barrels were Hart Stainless barrels, we ordered them ten at a time. Our reamers were ground with zero freebore.

Yes, my routine was 600 rounds of Blue dot loads in between cleanings. My hunting partner would occasionally push to 900 rounds with lots of cussing cleaning at days end.

Squirrels hibernated by June 1 as a rule, and we started shooting them in Feb as weather allowed. Then, it was off to the P. dog towns.

The only 221 brass available today is formed Lake City brass and I shot a ton of it for a while. Forming the 221 brass...a Good Winter's project, but the easy button is the Blue Dot or other shotgun powder in the 223 case. I also shot the 55g Sierra blitz in the 223 on coyotes at 2650 fps.

A barrel shooting blue dot will last 25,000 rounds. We also shot Blue Dot in the Fire ball, along with AA1680 which also gave very long barrel life.

We know our way around a machine shop, and advanced cleaning techniques for filthy barrels, I got my first bore scope in 1987 which was a used medical instrument.

 

[Coldfinger]

221 brass is no worse to deal with than any other brass. You just have to have good process and good dies, like any other cartridge.

And so does Blue Bot magically make copper fouling go away? Uh, no. I have fired plenty of Blue Dot loads in 223. My son called them fox poppers. No way they go 600 to 900 round without cleaning. I call BS. Flame away.

Edit: I guess you could shoot them 6-900 times if you let your gear get horribly nasty. So yeah, maybe it's not BS. Sorry.

If his rifles are still shooting acceptable accuracy why clean?

 

[26Reload]

Do you think Blue Dot would work well in a 22Nosler....
I use 32.5gr RL15, 53gr vmax

 

[VinceMule]

There is a guy named "Seafire" on 24hrcampfire that is the Blue Dot goo roo.

I also shot Blue dot in a 22/250, and my hunting partner shoots it in 220 Swift(50g V Max), 17 Rem(20g bullets), and 243 AI with 55g bullets

You have to remember that the fouling does accumulate, and you need to remove it at an acceptable build up which can be done with reasonable efforts.

 

[26Reload]

So it shouldn't have any problem in 22nosler....hmmm

 

[1stpitch]

The only 221 brass available today is formed Lake City brass

As I said, I just bought a box of Nosler 221 brass. It was delivered Wednesday. It is available if you know how to look.

 

[VinceMule]

Good for you, but case heads are soft. Best wishes.

 

[TigerOnThe Hill]

Im wanting to build a new varmint rifle for prarie dogs, thinking the 221fireball would be a good one but 223 components are everywhere. Any 221fb shooters in here? Will I regret it?

Humpy, Ive been shooting the 221 Remington Fireball for a few years. Started w/ a Contender 12"barrel from Virgin Valley Arms. It was a good shooter, but it's in semi-retirement. I go on 2-3 prairie dog hunting trips every year. I wanted to have a gun that a guest who doesn't normally shoot pd's could use so I put together a 221 using a Stevens Model 200 bolt action (originally chambered in 270 Win) w/ a McGowen barrel. I bought three these guns for $180 each on a sale at Academy Sports. One became a 221, one became a 20 Practical and the last became a gift to our pastor. When I'm up to the task it puts routinely puts 3 shots in 1/2" at 100 yards. The only bullet I've ever shot in it is the 40 gr V-Max, using H4227 or Hodgdon CFEBLK. It's not picky about primers. It's a relatively ligh gun, yet the shooter can spot most of his own shots, a very good trait. It doesn't have the range of the 223 Rem, but one of my guests killed a pd w/ it at 505 yards last month. It's very miserly and efficient w/ powder. I get 3500 fps w/ 20.5 gr of BLK and 17.2 gr of H4227. You wouldn't want it for your ONLY pd gun, but it'd be very useful as a part of your arsenal. When shots are 250-350 yards, the 221 will do very well. I wouldn't do anything different to my 221 and do not regret building it.

As far a brass, I admit there are limitations. Lapua discontinued Fireball brass (hoping they'll resume it one day), but Nosler it, I've not had problems finding the Nosler brass (#200 last week for an 17 Remington Fireball handgun project and #500 for a 20 VarTarg handgun). It's usually in stock at Midway of Midsouth. I've not encountered problems w/ the Nosler brass, but I've only shot the VT brass <5 times. I once tried 221 Fireball brass manufactured from 223 brass but was disappointed in the accuracy. Remington makes Fireball brass, but it's not as good as Nosler/Lapua and I don't remember the last time I saw it in stock anywhere. Actually, I shot old Remington brass in my 221 Fireball Contender and rifle.

If you're only going to have one pd gunl, I'd get the 223 (or even better, the 204 Ruger). If you're going to have multiple guns, I'd recommend looking at the 221 Fireball for one of them.

Edited to add: If my grandkids ever go on a pd hunt, the centerfire gun I'll start them on will be the 221 Fireball.

 

[sw282]

l have a Remington 700VLS in 221furball. A 22'' fluted barrel makes it a nice light 250yd gun w/40gr VMAX

 

[BLC08]

My favorite would be the 221 Fire Ball....

 

[Lionel Boyd Johnson]

I'm a long time fan of the .221 FB. My first was a Rem 700 with the laminated stock. It is a 1/2 MOA or better rifle with 40 grain Nosler BTs. I liked the little cartridge so much that I had a Shilen match barrel chambered .221 and fitted to a Stolle Panda benchrest action and bedded it into a McMillan BR stock. Now I had a 1/4 MOA .221 FB. I shot ground squirrels with the Remington, but never got a chance to take the Panda, as my friend out west passed away. So, my .221 benchrest rifle just sits in the safe. The accuracy and light recoil of the Remington was perfect on the little ground squirrels.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

221 brass is no worse to deal with than any other brass. You just have to have good process and good dies, like any other cartridge.

And so does Blue Bot magically make copper fouling go away? Uh, no. I have fired plenty of Blue Dot loads in 223. My son called them fox poppers. No way they go 600 to 900 round without cleaning. I call BS. Flame away.

Edit: I guess you could shoot them 6-900 times if you let your gear get horribly nasty. So yeah, maybe it's not BS. Sorry.

This guy cleans his barrels…never.

 

[sable tireur]

Remington makes Fireball brass, but it's not as good as Nosler/Lapua and I don't remember the last time I saw it in stock anywhere.

Post #11

I reiterate, reading is fundamental.

1994, I bought 500 pieces of Remington 221 Fireball then turned around and bought another 1,000 piece of the same Remington stock. It's finally down to the final reloads so I'm replacing it since it's currently available. I absolutely refuse to buy any components labeled Nosler, significantly over priced and under delivered.

The 221 Fireball may not have the legs that other, larger capacity cartridges have but the accuracy is excellent, reloading is simple and there are a variety of bullets available. The recoil is superb for novice and small stature shooters as well as long days in the varmint fields. Way back when, a couple of us actually shot the 37 grain Match VLD bullets to 1,000 yards just because we could. No wind of course...

However, the 53 gr. Match bullets have been reasonably priced and available when I need them. Seated over VVN-110, I get a full case and all the powder burns. This is a drawback with the 221 Fireball, achieving an efficient burn in the ever popular shorter barrels.

There is an excellent range of cartridges and bullets for shooting varmints.

Enjoy the search!

 

[VinceMule]

AA1680 in the 221 FB gave us the very longest barrel life, 25,000 rounds. We had 17 Ackley Hornets also, and AA1680 was used. I only had .007 of leade growth in 6000 rounds with 20g Bergers at 3550 fps with AA1680.

I started shooting AA1680 in the 221 FB with 40s, then switched to 10g of Blue Dot with the 40s. Groups were 1.25" at 200 yards which was plenty "minute of Squirrel" accuracy.