operator1
Well-Known Member
Had shoulder surgery 8 mos ago. I do.
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1st elk hunt need rifle advice
- Thread starter SFL_Dan
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buck8541
Active Member
Here, here. I use a 338 win mag and 250gr Accubonds, nothing worse than chasing an elk through snags and blow down timber..
I think there are diminishing returns. That gets more into platforms and philosophy which is another conversation in itself, I think.
I could see myself getting a 6.5, but I don't have a place for one in the line up. I've gone pure bolt gun except for an 1892 in 44 mag, and there's no place I could say I NEED a 6.5. I used to be much more of a gun nut, but thats kind of diminished. It's 223 shooting 68s, 308 shooting 125s, 325 shooting 200s and a 338 shooting 300s for me. Now if I were willing to part with the two smaller rifles I could see a 257 or 264 serving me well across a broad scope. But as soon as I get a can on that 338 in a few months I have a feeling I'm going to be much more of a 22LR/338LM shooter LOL.
IMHO, Your .270 works fine. Always work for a close shot. The work starts "after" you pull the trigger. The long shots give you bragging rights, thats all.
Having said That, I think the 6.5x284 or 6.5 CM are hard to beat for all-around big game on the lower 48 with a good supply of factory loads. If you do dive into reloading, you can make a nice tight shooting rifle. You are on the right track!
For the range you are talking about a 30-06 would do the job I regularly shoot mule deer out to 500 yd with my Springfield. And a 180 to 200 grn bullet in side of 500 yards will do the job on an elk. For longer than 500 I would go with a 300 wm or a 300 weatherby.
Playtimefun
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
- Messages
- 332
Well I can't resist... so here's two more cents...
Sorry, but while the 270 has shot numerous elk, when you have an elk at 400 yards it's pushing its limits. I wounded (and we luckily got her) a cow elk at close to 450 yards with my 280 AI (a 280 Weatherby ultralight rechambered to 280 AI) shooting a 160 accubond. It was enough to damage the shoulder bone but not enough to anchor her. I had to work hard tracking her to finally push her out of about 90 acres of bush to a friends dad who finished her off with his 308.
Another friend shot a bull elk at 400 yards with a Browning BAR in 270. It ran about 200 yards before it dropped (it was hit well). He thought that it should have dropped way quicker than that so the next day he ordered a Browning BAR in 300 Win. Mag. and he never used the 270 again!!!
Elk can absorb energy like crazy. If your close in the bush, anything will pretty much do if you hit it right. When your in the bush/farm land combination and you can limit your shot distance, a 308 can work but then your not shooting across the entire quarter either.
But let's face it, it's getting harder to get drawn and when it comes to putting a bull elk down past 400 yards, the magnums are the way to go. I've used my 7 mm WSM (custom titanium Remington) and 300 WSM (Kimber Montana) on elk and loaned the 300 WSM to 2 friends who shot elk with it and have since bought and use that cartridge as their moose and elk guns. But the elk I have shot with those 2 were at about 120 and just under 300 yards. A 270 would have probably worked fine then as well.
Of my 300 Win Mags 2 of them have taken elk at 460 and 490 yards. I have a 300 Remington Ultra Mag that hits like a hammer and I absolutely love it for long distance shooting. But instead of shooting long distance I shot a running 6x6 bull elk at 250 yards and it was like hitting that bull with a sledge hammer. I just rechambered a Sako Finnlight from 7 mm Rem Mag to 28 Nosler but with only a 24" barrel, it's a little short for efficiency with that cartridge.
So the 6.5 PRC, I don't own but basically it's close to a 270 WSM or 7 WSM so while maybe a touch light (I like slightly bigger and heavier) there probably nothing wrong with it. Just remember that the short magnums all have troubles with losing powder capacity with heavier bullets.
The 7 mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag have proven themselves again and again on long range everything at every imaginable distance. And the 300 has now taken over as magnum of choice between the two. Ammo is cheap for either and guns in both are readily available.
28, 30 and 33 Nosler are all awesome cartridges but you pretty much need a 26" barrel for them to take advantage of them. But it's a standard length action.
300 Weatherby, 300 RUM, 300 PRC (need one of these) all excellent. Same with 338 Win Mag. and 340 Weatherby.
Gun wise check out:
Weatherby Ultralight in 7 mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag, or in one of the weatherby cartridges (I love my 300 Weatherbys). They are relatively light so you can haul them into the bush and they are accurate.
Sako Finnlight in 7 mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag. I shot the one I have in 7 mm Rem Mag before I rechambered it to 28 Nosler and it had nice accuracy. Clip feed which is nice at times. With my Vortex 4-16 scope it's a bit heavy at 8.75 pounds (I think-it's been a while since I weighed it) but I am hoping to add it as a long range (1000 yard) elk gun.
Tikka T3 in the same calibres. A very accurate gun as I have never seen one not shoot.
Savage has some nice long range guns right now and from everything I am hearing they are now one of the guns to beat for accuracy out of the box. I have one in 6.5x284 and it's what I used for a moose 2 years ago.
Always keep in mind, a well placed shot from a 270 is better then a flinch shot from one of the magnums. So if you can put in the practice to learn to shot them, one of the magnums is really the way to go, especially when that elk may not give you a chance to get close.
Find a gun that fits you well and then your budget so you can put some good glass on it (especially as elk love to show up at first and last light). Do a bit of practising and your good to go.
Side note, if anyone tells you that a magnum ruins more meat is full of it. I learnt this the hard way. I used that 270 on mule deer and couldn't figure out why I was getting all kinds of meat damage until I figured out that I always used good quality bullets (Barnes, Accubonds, etc) in my magnums and here I was shooting factory bullets and they were fragmenting like crazy the second they hit. Never had that with my magnums.
Sorry, but while the 270 has shot numerous elk, when you have an elk at 400 yards it's pushing its limits. I wounded (and we luckily got her) a cow elk at close to 450 yards with my 280 AI (a 280 Weatherby ultralight rechambered to 280 AI) shooting a 160 accubond. It was enough to damage the shoulder bone but not enough to anchor her. I had to work hard tracking her to finally push her out of about 90 acres of bush to a friends dad who finished her off with his 308.
Another friend shot a bull elk at 400 yards with a Browning BAR in 270. It ran about 200 yards before it dropped (it was hit well). He thought that it should have dropped way quicker than that so the next day he ordered a Browning BAR in 300 Win. Mag. and he never used the 270 again!!!
Elk can absorb energy like crazy. If your close in the bush, anything will pretty much do if you hit it right. When your in the bush/farm land combination and you can limit your shot distance, a 308 can work but then your not shooting across the entire quarter either.
But let's face it, it's getting harder to get drawn and when it comes to putting a bull elk down past 400 yards, the magnums are the way to go. I've used my 7 mm WSM (custom titanium Remington) and 300 WSM (Kimber Montana) on elk and loaned the 300 WSM to 2 friends who shot elk with it and have since bought and use that cartridge as their moose and elk guns. But the elk I have shot with those 2 were at about 120 and just under 300 yards. A 270 would have probably worked fine then as well.
Of my 300 Win Mags 2 of them have taken elk at 460 and 490 yards. I have a 300 Remington Ultra Mag that hits like a hammer and I absolutely love it for long distance shooting. But instead of shooting long distance I shot a running 6x6 bull elk at 250 yards and it was like hitting that bull with a sledge hammer. I just rechambered a Sako Finnlight from 7 mm Rem Mag to 28 Nosler but with only a 24" barrel, it's a little short for efficiency with that cartridge.
So the 6.5 PRC, I don't own but basically it's close to a 270 WSM or 7 WSM so while maybe a touch light (I like slightly bigger and heavier) there probably nothing wrong with it. Just remember that the short magnums all have troubles with losing powder capacity with heavier bullets.
The 7 mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag have proven themselves again and again on long range everything at every imaginable distance. And the 300 has now taken over as magnum of choice between the two. Ammo is cheap for either and guns in both are readily available.
28, 30 and 33 Nosler are all awesome cartridges but you pretty much need a 26" barrel for them to take advantage of them. But it's a standard length action.
300 Weatherby, 300 RUM, 300 PRC (need one of these) all excellent. Same with 338 Win Mag. and 340 Weatherby.
Gun wise check out:
Weatherby Ultralight in 7 mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag, or in one of the weatherby cartridges (I love my 300 Weatherbys). They are relatively light so you can haul them into the bush and they are accurate.
Sako Finnlight in 7 mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag. I shot the one I have in 7 mm Rem Mag before I rechambered it to 28 Nosler and it had nice accuracy. Clip feed which is nice at times. With my Vortex 4-16 scope it's a bit heavy at 8.75 pounds (I think-it's been a while since I weighed it) but I am hoping to add it as a long range (1000 yard) elk gun.
Tikka T3 in the same calibres. A very accurate gun as I have never seen one not shoot.
Savage has some nice long range guns right now and from everything I am hearing they are now one of the guns to beat for accuracy out of the box. I have one in 6.5x284 and it's what I used for a moose 2 years ago.
Always keep in mind, a well placed shot from a 270 is better then a flinch shot from one of the magnums. So if you can put in the practice to learn to shot them, one of the magnums is really the way to go, especially when that elk may not give you a chance to get close.
Find a gun that fits you well and then your budget so you can put some good glass on it (especially as elk love to show up at first and last light). Do a bit of practising and your good to go.
Side note, if anyone tells you that a magnum ruins more meat is full of it. I learnt this the hard way. I used that 270 on mule deer and couldn't figure out why I was getting all kinds of meat damage until I figured out that I always used good quality bullets (Barnes, Accubonds, etc) in my magnums and here I was shooting factory bullets and they were fragmenting like crazy the second they hit. Never had that with my magnums.
Rhino Hunter
Well-Known Member
I have a Ruger Guide gun in .375 Ruger. It's short, handy, and very sturdy. It's a GREAT rifle. But it has a 20" barrel. It comes with a brake, and boy is it loud. I'm sure a .338 RCM would be fantastic elk medicine but you might want for a longer barrel depending on your distance.
Lots of great advice here Dan.
You could just but my 338 ALLEN MAGNUM. 20 lb-ish. Not exactly a mountain rifle, but perfect from mountain to mountain. Pretty much enough juice for anything to out past a mile. Comes with wheels.
Just buy enough gun for your worst case senario - that has great factory loadings and you will be fine. As most rifles manufactured today with modern CNC processes are equal to or better than yesterday's custom guns, you should be able to easily find a factory rifle. Just do not put cheap glass on it because you have a budget number. Not sure there is a hard and fast Rule of thumb but when you start shooting out to 1000 yards the quality of the glass and perhaps more importantly, the erectors can be more important than the gun in making clean repeatable kills. There are some good scopes in the $1000 class, but there are a lot of $1000 factory rifles out there with $3000 scopes on them for good reason.
Recoil is, like ballistics, a mathematical problem. You increase the velocity, the bullet weight, the powder charge and reduce the rifle weight and you have more recoil. You can reduce the felt recoil by putting a thumb hole stock and a muzzle break on the rifle. If you use an integral break you do not increase weight.
We of the SE can have a real problem with the mountains, a lack of our normal oxygen supply. So you need to prepare physically.
Every PH or guide will ask you if you own a 30-06 when you ask them about a thin shinned game rifle. Why? Because it really works and ammo is all over the world. It is not exotic, no, but it works. If the 06 is too plane Jane, go to the 300 WM. But, practice, practice with the range reading and scope adjustments for one shot hits. The WM cost to reload is about the same as a 06.
Scope, look for a Night Force, you can not hit what you can not see. The scope's power is not near as important as the glass' clarity. A good laser range finder is a must, it should have a setting for rain, fog, under 150 yards, etc. I prefer something that keeps on ticking VS a wonderful warranty in the brush on top of a mountain.
If you have a ballistics program and a chrono, set a trajectory program using actual bullet weight, BC and velocity, to 25 yard increments, print a colum, cut it out, then with wide clear tape over, put the table of adjustments on your front bell.
Rifle, look at the Montana Rifle Co 1999 action, select a barrel and they will put it together for you. Their 1999 action combines the best attributes of the pre 64 Win and the 98 Mauser, it is a formitable actin, barrel combo. I own three of their 99 actions, one with an MRC barrel and 2 with Lothar Walther barrels.
Ed
We of the SE can have a real problem with the mountains, a lack of our normal oxygen supply. So you need to prepare physically.
Every PH or guide will ask you if you own a 30-06 when you ask them about a thin shinned game rifle. Why? Because it really works and ammo is all over the world. It is not exotic, no, but it works. If the 06 is too plane Jane, go to the 300 WM. But, practice, practice with the range reading and scope adjustments for one shot hits. The WM cost to reload is about the same as a 06.
Scope, look for a Night Force, you can not hit what you can not see. The scope's power is not near as important as the glass' clarity. A good laser range finder is a must, it should have a setting for rain, fog, under 150 yards, etc. I prefer something that keeps on ticking VS a wonderful warranty in the brush on top of a mountain.
If you have a ballistics program and a chrono, set a trajectory program using actual bullet weight, BC and velocity, to 25 yard increments, print a colum, cut it out, then with wide clear tape over, put the table of adjustments on your front bell.
Rifle, look at the Montana Rifle Co 1999 action, select a barrel and they will put it together for you. Their 1999 action combines the best attributes of the pre 64 Win and the 98 Mauser, it is a formitable actin, barrel combo. I own three of their 99 actions, one with an MRC barrel and 2 with Lothar Walther barrels.
Ed
FIGJAM
Well-Known Member
Sorry man - those all seem like shot placement and bullet selection issues more than 270 win cartridge issues. I love how quick hunters are to place blame on a gun or a cartridge when really they just made a poor shot or picked the wrong bullet.
First off good luck on your first elk this year. I know my first one was a big impact on my hunting experience. My daughter took her first elk this past hunting season and as a father I was even more excited than taking my own.
There are a few things to consider when choosing a rifle for bringing down elk. But the one I'm discussing is the most important. I would ask how well do you group using your 270? Why would I ask this? Shot placement is more important than BIG BULLETS. I hunt elk every year I use a 30-06 w/165 gr., I've use 270 w/170 gr., and 6.5 with 75 gr. My daughter took her first with that same 270, and my dad uses a 280. I know people who hunt everything with a 243. Shot placement is key. Shot placement philosophy falls into two categories, knock down/wound or drop in tracks. Big caliber/round people believe put in on the shoulder and let the round do the work. Ruin that entire front should possibly even the other one. Miss your spot by a few inches and have that animal run for miles and miles, trust me a wounded elk is not fun to track. The drop in tracks theory is simple, hold not neck or head. Think about this for just a min, if you can group your rifle tight and you have faith and trust in yourself as a hunter, your equipment is dialed in, you end up with one of two things. One, a missed shot with no wounded animal to track, two you have a dead elk right where it stood.
Just think about that for a bit. Apply it to deer as well. You end up with a better tasting game(you didn't have to chase it), and you end up with more meat in the freezer. Worried about your mount. Don't be your bullet won't ruin the hide like it can ruin meat.
I hunt elk every year bigger caliber is not the answer, more practice and trust in yourself to put the bullet where it needs to go. You may end up with a 100-500 yard shot depending on where your going for your hunt. Trust in yourself and make the shot count. Good luck
There are a few things to consider when choosing a rifle for bringing down elk. But the one I'm discussing is the most important. I would ask how well do you group using your 270? Why would I ask this? Shot placement is more important than BIG BULLETS. I hunt elk every year I use a 30-06 w/165 gr., I've use 270 w/170 gr., and 6.5 with 75 gr. My daughter took her first with that same 270, and my dad uses a 280. I know people who hunt everything with a 243. Shot placement is key. Shot placement philosophy falls into two categories, knock down/wound or drop in tracks. Big caliber/round people believe put in on the shoulder and let the round do the work. Ruin that entire front should possibly even the other one. Miss your spot by a few inches and have that animal run for miles and miles, trust me a wounded elk is not fun to track. The drop in tracks theory is simple, hold not neck or head. Think about this for just a min, if you can group your rifle tight and you have faith and trust in yourself as a hunter, your equipment is dialed in, you end up with one of two things. One, a missed shot with no wounded animal to track, two you have a dead elk right where it stood.
Just think about that for a bit. Apply it to deer as well. You end up with a better tasting game(you didn't have to chase it), and you end up with more meat in the freezer. Worried about your mount. Don't be your bullet won't ruin the hide like it can ruin meat.
I hunt elk every year bigger caliber is not the answer, more practice and trust in yourself to put the bullet where it needs to go. You may end up with a 100-500 yard shot depending on where your going for your hunt. Trust in yourself and make the shot count. Good luck
I know Fig and I kind of had our own convo going within your thread, but I'd like to get back to your original question because I think quite a few other guys have hit the nail on the head.
I agree with lots of other guys that the 270 you have can get the job done. Seeing as how you're wanting a purpose built gun with long range reliability I would go with a 7RM or 300WM. There are plenty of platforms to build from, so it really comes down to how high-speed low-drag you want to be.
My lightweight guns are Kimber or Christensen. Considering what you're looking for I would look at the Christensen Ridgeline in 7RM or 300WM. You can build a capable package with that as a foundation while staying light and handy.
Optics, thats purely up to you. Lots of good options and nobody really sells junk IMO. I would definitely encourage you to worry more about great binoculars than a great scope. The fanciest tacit-turret scope out there isn't going to find the elk for you, and you'll be looking through binos much more. Look to Vortex, Maven and the European brands. Good binos are worth their weight in gold.
It's mostly the other gear that nobody really talks about that makes or breaks a hunt. Yeah, this is a LR hunting forum and we all love to talk about the sweet LR platforms we have, but the binos, boots, clothing, socks, food, packs, knives, axes, chainsaws, maps/gps, knowing the critter, etc play a much larger role. For a guided hunt I understand all of that won't be on your shoulders, but it's important still. Take care of yourself first and be prepared to embrace the suck because the shooting part is just a small fraction of the experience.
And the best piece of advice I can give you is to enjoy the experience whether you're successful or not. I know lots of guys that have spent money to go on expensive hunts and they feel like they've failed when they come back empty handed after spending $Ks. Don't let that be the case. Enjoy your trip because it's not like most vacations, it an interactive experience.
Playtimefun
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
- Messages
- 332
That's exactly my point. I have a friend who uses his 220 Swift to shoot elk. But they come out **** near to his doorstep and being that he is an incredible good shot (he puts in lots of practice) he neck shoots them at 300 yards from an old grain bin.
Unfortunately, I see too many people shooting elk at distances that they should not be with calibers that will work fine if the placement is good.
A friend uses his 6.5x284 for deer (2 years ago at 1140 yards). He will use that gun and his 7-08 for deer and moose, but when it's elk, out comes his 7 Rem. mag.
Another friend insists on using his Browning BLR 308 for everything and I hate it!!! Because although he's a decent shot and knows his limits, a running cow elk at 250 yards and the next thing you know you have to work your *** off to try and find it.
The one thing we don't know is (and I may have missed it) is... where is the gentleman planning to hunt? Is it prairies/farm land or is this the mountains? Can you set up and wait for for 15 minutes practicing dry firing 30 times like the guys do on tv (which they never show). Because we can go buy an over the counter tag here but in those areas expect to see massive hunting pressure. And your lucky to see a standing elk. Lots of time someone has pushed them out from somewhere and you better take advantage of that. When your drawn, in the farmlands here, you can go set yourself up in a blind or buy hay bales for a shot, but elk are known as being "ghosts of the woods" for good reason. You think they are going to come out here... and they show up somewhere else and you want a gun that can do it all.
Gamesniper19
Well-Known Member
Dan
You have 13 pages of opinion. One more
For a pure hunting rifle I recommend that Christensen Ridgeline in either the 300 WM or the 28N because with both calibers you get:
- Match grade OTC bullets that are reliably accurate for elk and deer sized animals out to any responsible hunting distance
- Bullet weights large enough to take nearly any animal in N. America. no such thing as a bullet too big for a deer...the animal doesnt care if you dont. Dead is dead
- The 28N will be ballistically superior but also kick just a little more than the 300 WM - with a like 185/190 grain load, the 28N will be faster by about 150 fps and carry similar terminal energy - but both will run great
- The 6.5's will kill elk and so will the 270 (so will a 243 with shot placement) but in my professional and personal opinion, an elk should be taken with a 175 grain and larger bullet. A perfect shot is perfect so 6.5s are fine, an imperfect shot in the field will benefit from more energy of a larger bullet - hence 175 grain or bigger
