Do you have a JP eliminator? or 3 port comp? Or the other one I am talking about? There is a huge difference. I have shot brakes that barely do anything. Like you said, it doesn't translate to the experiences of the rest of those who have bought them.
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Need Advice on a Rifle
- Thread starter ejd1
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I'm not selling anything, just trying to enlighten some people to help avoid wasting money on things that don't work. Seems some people may be reluctant to learn. I have video proof. There are many videos out there with muzzle brake testing. Right, physics doesn't lie, I know, I am an engineer. The gas is the (nearly ) equal opposite reaction and it forces the rifle forward away from the shooter. Pretty simple, except in getting the design right.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I've shot all of them. They are good brakes but they cannot change what happens before the bullet gets to them.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
The gas only accounts for 40-60% of felt recoil. As soon as the powder touches off the bullet and chamber accelerate away from one another.
The heavier the bullet, larger the charge, and lighter the rig the more recoil you feel.
This all takes place before the bullet leaves the barrel at which point the "Jet Effect" takes over. The latter is the only portion of felt recoil that a brake or supporessor can have any effect on.
brentc
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Since you don't have direct experience with a Christensen rifle, Exactly what did you directly observe? Someone at the range with a rifle that wouldn't group? If so, can you vouch for shooter competence or ammo quality? Maybe, you saw someone actually split their eye? Because we all know that christensen is the only manufacturer producing 7 lb "boomer" magnum rifles.
At least Christensen had the foresight to install a brake at the factory unlike the others.For those that actually had problems, did they attempt to rectify with the manufacturer? Or did they run straight to the internet to spew garbage when their $2000 rifle wouldn't print 1/2 MOA with Remington Cor Lokts.
Perhaps you should directly observe a few Christensens in the hands of capable loaders and shooters before you propagate misleading information. There are quite a few of us around that have had no problem getting these rifles to perform.
coyotezapper
Well-Known Member
Almost anyone can shoot a heavy rifle well. A lighter magnum or mountain rifle is only mastered with practice. I've seen so many shooters complain about their groupings when the problem is in their shooting mechanics or their lack of skill in load development. A rifle is only as good as the driver.
One last thing then, unless you have a reply..... The weight of the charge (powder) has a substantial effect on recoil. Why then in a 30 caliber does a 308, 30/06 300 win mag 300 weatherby and 300 RUM have progressively more recoil with the same 180 grain weight bullet? Because the expanding gas has a huge effect on the felt recoil of the rifle. The bullet weight is only a small part. So, if you can reduce the felt recoil to 50, 60 or 70 percent (the FELT recoil) then re-directing the gas is having a huge effect. You just cannot argue with what you are feeling, or not feeling at the butt end of the rifle. It works and works phenomenally! Watch a video of the barrel before and after a brake. I don't think there is any arguing with the reality of it. Yes, there are downsides to a brake. "Perceived" noise and blast to the side. You have to wear hearing protection, bralke or no brake and Don't have your buddies stand to the side of your muzzle. But if you don't want to get beat up and you want to see your target after the shot, you need a brake.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I've neither said nor propagated anything "misleading" here.Since you don't have direct experience with a Christensen rifle, Exactly what did you directly observe? Someone at the range with a rifle that wouldn't group? If so, can you vouch for shooter competence or ammo quality? Maybe, you saw someone actually split their eye? Because we all know that christensen is the only manufacturer producing 7 lb "boomer" magnum rifles.
For those that actually had problems, did they attempt to rectify with the manufacturer? Or did they run straight to the internet to spew garbage when their $2000 rifle wouldn't print 1/2 MOA with Remington Cor Lokts.
Perhaps you should directly observe a few Christensens in the hands of capable loaders and shooters before you propagate misleading information. There are quite a few of us around that have had no problem getting these rifles to perform.
You're happy with your experience but your experience is limited to the two rifles you own.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
It's importance is why I made a point of mentioning it.
I've been both very clear and very accurate in what I said here, arguing it further is pointless.
The brake, no matter how efficient it is can only have an effect on the gas portion of felt recoil, period.
It cannot do anything about what happens before those gasses reach it under enough pressure for the ports to redirect it stabilizing to the extent they are capable the rifle.
Take two otherwise "equal" rifles and shoot them side by side, one braked, one with no brake and that difference is clear.
What's equallyclear is that the initial forces of recoil will be the same with both. What happens once the bullet reaches the brake will substantially different.
Grouping is repeatability. Most shooters incorrectly equate the word accuracy to repeatability; that has just been engrained in our sport. If you don't flinch on the first shot and you are steady on target, the bullet should go where it is supposed to within the capability (MOA capability of the rifle) and assuming it has been sighted in for a cpold barrel shot and assuming you have compensated for a change in altitude, temperature and pressure and assuming no wind. A lightweight barreled 300 win mag is not meant to shoot 5 times in a row in a minute's time. The barrel will heat up and the POI will change, at least a little and sometimes a lot.
As far as outside forces... use a ballistic calculator and use your load's muzzle velocity and calculate your drop at your rifle range at 300 feet above sea level and then recalculate that at 7000 ft elevation, even at 3000 ft and see how dramatic the bullet drop difference is. Now go from 80 degree ambient to 30 degree ambient and that doesn't take into account the change in the cartridge and barrel dimensions and properties due to temperature change. Your shot can also move left or right. You NEED to sight in at the place you are hunting. Sure you can get away with small errors and most big game rifles won't be affected by much at 100 yards, but even at 200 yards it could be a miss or less than optimal hit compounded by any human error like heavy breathing and a loud heartbeat, fogging glasses, fogging scope. (There are many more factors I have not discussed here). There's no substitute for shooting your gun in the real world.
Right, and the gas has more effect than the weight of the bullet. That's how a brake works.
adk hunter
Well-Known Member
I have slugged thru the whole thread pillow fights and all...
I TREASURE my time with a custom knife maker and the craft he taught me. Seems like a rifle from your guy would be a lifetime treat. Scary how $500 can fly out the window these days. Invest in memories after he makes you that rifle.
Joe
I TREASURE my time with a custom knife maker and the craft he taught me. Seems like a rifle from your guy would be a lifetime treat. Scary how $500 can fly out the window these days. Invest in memories after he makes you that rifle.
Joe
xsn10s
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Okay if we you this train of thought and split the difference then gas accounts for 50% average of the felt recoil. So using a recoil calculator I came up with 42.98 ft/lbs of recoil energy on a 8lb rifle shooting a 225gr bullet going 2850fps with a 80gr powder charge( 300 WM). Using 8lbs for the rifle again but shooting a 168gr bullet going 2828fps with a 49gr powder charge has 20.56 ft/lbs recoil energy (308 Win). That's pretty close to 50% recoil reduction. Any shooter that's experienced shooting those kind of recoils will say there's a big difference in felt recoil. http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php
xsn10s
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ejd1 well I was looking around and found this review from Rokslide. I've never met these guys but I have found them to be informative. Your buddy might be interested in this review and the price of the rifle. Nosler has one rifle I believe in the $1400 range. https://www.rokslide.com/christensen-arms-mesa-rifle-review/
