Need Advice on a Rifle

[Diamondback]

The 6.5-284 really needs to be built on a long action. Otherwise you have serious limitations with existing bullets/loads and of course within two years it's almost a cinch we'll be seeing even heavier and longer 6.5's hitting the market.

The Savage is in a long action in 6.5 284 - stainless 116 FCSS.

That is why I recommend it as a factory build platform. I view it as a 270 Win with better BC for longer range - low recoil, keep it simple. Jack O'Connor proved what that round could do a long time ago on Elk, Deer, and Bear. The modern Hunter has never had it so good.

 

[WildRose]

The Savage is in a long action in 6.5 284 - stainless 116 FCSS.

That is why I recommend it as a factory build platform. I view it as a 270 Win with better BC for longer range - low recoil, keep it simple. Jack O'Connor proved what that round could do a long time ago on Elk, Deer, and Bear. The modern Hunter has never had it so good.

More than the current generation will ever understand. The rebirth of the 6.5's is in full swing and they are tearing up the market.

 

[WildRose]

Let's apply this same logic to all the used Nightforces getting hocked in the classifieds for hundreds less than retail. Is that a red flag too?

I don't see any "like new", "only fired once", or "low mileage" NF's selling for half what anyone paid for them or less. I certainly don't see it on a regular basis.

A lot of people have had bad luck with Christiansan and a lot more got their eyebrows peeled back the first time they fired their ultrlight magnum boomer and decided to go another route.

If you're happy with yours more power too ya but I will always pass along the best advice I can.

 

[Swiftkill]

Hello all. I have a friend at work who is debating on whether or not to build a custom .300 Win Mag with a SS barrel, or just buy a Christensen Arms rifle with their carbon fiber barrel. All of my rifles are custom with either Proof or Hart barrels. I have a local builder who is really good. He's been doing it for over 55 years. That's who he will go with, if he goes custom. I just don't know much about Christensen rifles at all. Are they good, sub half shooters? Can anyone give me pros/cons regarding their rifles? Thanks in advance for any and all help.

I know the allure of a custom rifle and if you have the money go for it. I just purchased a Remington 5R Long Range with 26" barrel for long Range shooting. They have two nice versions with 24" Barrels but I wanted the weight and added inches to eek out velocity.
I wanted to build a semi-custom gun on a budget. It is pretty easy these days to get a 5/8 inch or even a 1/2 inch grouping gun out of a factory rifle these days. I wanted to put a Timney Calvin elite trigger in it and I threaded the barrel for a muzzle brake and put on a custom tactical boolt knob.
I hate to admit it but the remington 700 stainless action with the machine turned bolt is one of the smoothest actions out there (in THAT configuration). I built a .243 with a PTG custom action, Shilen Ultra match Barrel, Timney Trigger, stockys stock and it shoots great, but not really a secret, you still need to find the right ammo. Its all about harmonics. Anyway, I am attaching a video of my friend shooting my 300 with a JP Enterprises recoil eliminator Tank break. Once you try that brake the ugly starts to go away. I also have the JP 3 port compensator whicjh is nearly as good but looks slick. I also found a Brake for $12 on ebay, YEAH $12. It is a knock off of the Jerry Miculek DPMS brake but with added 2 jet ports on top and it is in a close 3rd place. For a one shot rifle I probably wouldn't put a brake, but for a

multi-shot rifle a brake is a must. This thing shoots like a Heavy barrel 22/250. Sorry I cannot attach a video here. You can e-mail me at [email protected] if you'd like to see the videos and would like to subscribe to my on-line magazine. Thanks,

Mike

 

[johnlittletree]

Rick R.,
i just bought a 6.5 CM Browning X-Bolt Pro "semi custom" rifle. That means it has features not found in less expensive X-Bolts;
->Stainless barreled action
->carbon fiber stock
->bronze Cerakote on metal and stock
->muzzle brake and thread cap
->factory lapped barrel
->fluted barrel and bolt and bolt handle

For $1,750. that's a lot of rifle. So yeah, a custom rifle has just exactly what you want but this rifle had just what i wanted, including a 3 lug bolt and for $1.000.less than a stainless SAKO 85 Carbonlight. Custom rifles ain't all where it's at when it comes to very nice rifles.

Eric B.

I had a Browning A-Bolt that I bought in College with the BOSS system in 300 Win Mag. and I loved it! The next owner loved it just as much as I did.

I was in College and was not married yet so between 1994 and 1998 I think. My Gunsmith talked me out of what ever I was looking at. $400 out the Door. That man was always looking out for me and educating me. Sadly he is dead now. That was prob. the most accurate factory rifle I had ever owned or shot at that point.

I did not like all the little parts and pieces that made up the bolt and trigger but I was not taking it into combat I was taking it hunting! For the record it ticked my soon to be father in-law off and my oldest brother in-law off. It out shot their California Weatherby in 7mm Weatherby Mag. and Remington BDL in 300 Win Mag. It was cheaper and more accurate much much cheaper $400 out the door brand new. I was not reloading at that point either so it was Ammo I bought at K-Mart because I was a poor college student.

It had beautiful Walnut stock with lots of figure but that terrible heavy thick looking liquid glass like finish. If I had kept it I would have refinished it in Tongue Oil first time I damaged it but it was always on my back or on a horse and never got more than light scratches. In fact it had nicer wood than my Winchester Model 70 Super Grade and that is saying something. The only down side was the over glossy finish on the Browning and at the time the Alloy bottom metal if I remember right. At this time it was still common to see steel bottom metal on most actions. Just a few years latter you started to see a lot of players switching to alloy or a mix of alloy for some parts and steel for others. Usually when they said alloy back then that was code for aluminium just like polymer is code for plastic!

I have no idea on a practical side on the X-Bolt I have not owned one or shot one so no opinion based on facts or actual experience. I just saw a Maple Medallion with Octagon Barrel online and she is a looker!

 

[Dollar55]

Hello all. I have a friend at work who is debating on whether or not to build a custom .300 Win Mag with a SS barrel, or just buy a Christensen Arms rifle with their carbon fiber barrel. All of my rifles are custom with either Proof or Hart barrels. I have a local builder who is really good. He's been doing it for over 55 years. That's who he will go with, if he goes custom. I just don't know much about Christensen rifles at all. Are they good, sub half shooters? Can anyone give me pros/cons regarding their rifles? Thanks in advance for any and all help.

 

[Dollar55]

Hello all. I have a friend at work who is debating on whether or not to build a custom .300 Win Mag with a SS barrel, or just buy a Christensen Arms rifle with their carbon fiber barrel. All of my rifles are custom with either Proof or Hart barrels. I have a local builder who is really good. He's been doing it for over 55 years. That's who he will go with, if he goes custom. I just don't know much about Christensen rifles at all. Are they good, sub half shooters? Can anyone give me pros/cons regarding their rifles? Thanks in advance for any and all help.

From experience stay away from the C A rifles. They are over rated.

 

[WildRose]

This showed up in my email not resurrecting this thread myself. My apprenticed to me an Automtive Technician in Germany. Got tired of that and when I moved back to the USA I worked for one year and decided I was off to University! My first 4 year degree was in Aviation Technology Material Sciences! I ended up working in automotive world for a long time.

So by what voodoo does what the barrel blank is wrapped in matter with regard to cold bore shot accuracy potential? How does the material the blank is wrapped in influence the interior machining dimensions and finish of the bore?

Oh before any even tries to claim it makes the barrel stiff in any significant way as compared to a barrel blank of identical exterior dimensions not wrapped in carbon fiber I can tell you that is bunk! If anyone tries to tell you otherwise they are either a liar or a fool.

Now could a case be made that such a barrel is stiffer then a blank of the same naked diameter before the barrel is wrapped? Yes an argument could be made for that and that alone. That said I would want to see 3rd party documentation extensive documentation!

Then I would want to see again 3rd party documentation showing that the marginal increase in stiffness if their even is can be tightly link as the causative factor in increase accuracy potential on cold bore shots off hand on moving or stationary targets and that given the normal limit of 3-5 rounds in most bolt action hunting rifles that it could affect those shots in a statistically significant way as well!

Since fighter planes and stealth aircraft do not use main guns with barrel manufactured in this way were weight is everything that tells you all you need to know. Even in places were weight is not everything and money is no object since tax payers and debt are funding things you still do not see this. No tanks or capital class ships have guns made in this way. Also last I checked no serious military has carbon fiber wrapped barrels in the hands of soldiers not even air born/Para/Speed roping/ air assault troops where weight is always an issue because you are operating aircraft and have no clue when you might be relived and resupplied so ounces and pounds are critical but so is durability and accuracy. Last I checked no snipers in active duty deployments have these either. Sure would be nice on a 50 BMG sniper weapon to shed some weight!

I could turn down an ER SHAW barrel and wrap in carbon fiber and it is not going to turn a "Sow's ear into a silk purse!" nothing against ER Shaw either but since they do not pin themselves down on their web site to anything remotely like a hard standard I picked them in this case for this example. So if that carbon wrapped barrel shot really well it would be because the interior finish and machining in general where well done.

Keeping in mind that our Military is known to grossly over pay for things and even they do not use this wallet lightener!

Now if you building an F1 car and you want it to be insanely light but still be able to hit a wall head on at close to 200 and not shatter the drivers legs then carbon fiber along with cardboard honey combs and such can be a fantastic combo. If you are building an aircraft where every gram impacts performance and you need an insanely light weight wing that is also very rigid again fantastic. I even like it's use in stocks when it makes sense in spite of the insane price point for carbon fiber.

I think Jesse James said it best one time on one of the shows he was a regular on " Welding more and more metal onto something is stupid in an attempt to make it stronger or more rigid that is "Redneck Engineering!". The point he was getting at is that you want to use any material smartly to get the most strength or rigidity etc... for the least amount of additional weight.

The final nail in the coffin is that BR guys do not regularly use this sort of barrel do they? How about F-Class is it the norm? What about Silhouette where you need to actually hold the rifle and shoot with no bench and no bipod? Surely the New Ultra Light Arms uses these right along with all you super expensive OEM hunting rifles? I know I am sure those high end African Custom Shops are using this as the norm right?

A pencil thin barrel if machined well and beded in the best way for it can have a cold bore shot accuracy every bit as good as a 12.9 pound barrel. Your heavier barrels only matter as they heat up the weight of a barrel has nothing to do with it cold bore shot potential. Now if you need to shoot 10, 20, 30 rounds in short time frame then added mass helps a lot with heat. Since this is a "Long Range Hunting" web sight my mind goes to hunting right away unless someone says it for F-Class or BR or P-Dogs from a bench etc....Long range hunting is either a bean field sort of situation or a mountain-valley situation most time. I have never seen a man take a 500m-1000m shot in dense brush in heavy woods! LOL Those pesky tree's get in the way!

If you look at the shooting sports you can quickly see what sort of gear is the norm and what brands seem to be in the winner circle the most. No I am not saying you need to go to competition levels on everything but you can rest assured that the favored boutique barrel makers would not be doing as much business as they do if people where not getting results consistently!

Assuming we are talking about well machined gear and a good barrel it is not tough to consistently get 1/2-1/4 MOA from a reworked WWII Mauser, premium barrel and hand loads. The nut working the lathe and end mill is super important!

The difference is in the harmonics. You still have to start with a high quality barrel as the core or all you have is a very expensive carbon fiber wrapped piece of junk.

Comparing two equally well made barrels from the same mfg, the carbon fiber barrel is going to be more consisent due to the difference in harmonics and stiffness.

Carbon fiber wrapped barresl would quickly melt from the heat of rapid fire cannons and machine guns, that's why the military doesn't use them.

I'm not sold on them but the CFW barrels do have their place, particularly in cartidges that don't have a whole lot of recoil to start with and some untility with the magnums but particularly with the latter offer some "challenges" as well.

As for the crack about the military snipers, no, there's not a sniper on earth that would trade a heavy steel barrel on a .50, .416, .375, or .338 for a light carbon fiber wrapped barrel as it would beat the hell out of them with every shot. Try looking at vrious felt recoil calculations and see how important the weight of the rifle is.

I'm not a fan of magnums in light platforms to start with but with the ultra low weight of the CF barrels felt recoil as compared to all steel barrels makes a huge difference.

The best made muzzle brake ever still can't compensate for an ultra low weight platform.

 

[johnlittletree]

I would add that the Proof starts out with a cut rifled blank. Clearly they do a fantastic job machining that barrel long before they wrap it in carbon.

He could get 2 Brux Cut Rifled barrels for the price of one Proof Research barrel. The same could be said for many other more mainstream custom match grade barrels.

Also you can not nitride this or any other similar process especially the high temp processes. Very limited on how a set back and recrown to restore accuracy either and with a magnum that day comes sooner than you think unless it is only used for hunting and stays int he safe all other times!

 

[WildRose]

I would add that the Proof starts out with a cut rifled blank. Clearly they do a fantastic job machining that barrel long before they wrap it in carbon.

He could get 2 Brux Cut Rifled barrels for the price of one Proof Research barrel. The same could be said for many other more mainstream custom match grade barrels.

Also you can not nitride this or any other similar process especially the high temp processes. Very limited on how a set back and recrown to restore accuracy either and with a magnum that day comes sooner than you think unless it is only used for hunting and stays int he safe all other times!

You can have a CFW barrel done with as much room to seet it back as you want.

 

[brentc]

I don't see any "like new", "only fired once", or "low mileage" NF's selling for half what anyone paid for them or less. I certainly don't see it on a regular basis.

A lot of people have had bad luck with Christiansan and a lot more got their eyebrows peeled back the first time they fired their ultrlight magnum boomer and decided to go another route.

If you're happy with yours more power too ya but I will always pass along the best advice I can.

Oh man! I forgot that advice is always best when it's riddled with secondhand knowledge and silly logic.

 

[Swiftkill]

The difference is in the harmonics. You still have to start with a high quality barrel as the core or all you have is a very expensive carbon fiber wrapped piece of junk.

Comparing two equally well made barrels from the same mfg, the carbon fiber barrel is going to be more consisent due to the difference in harmonics and stiffness.

Carbon fiber wrapped barresl would quickly melt from the heat of rapid fire cannons and machine guns, that's why the military doesn't use them.

I'm not sold on them but the CFW barrels do have their place, particularly in cartidges that don't have a whole lot of recoil to start with and some untility with the magnums but particularly with the latter offer some "challenges" as well.

As for the crack about the military snipers, no, there's not a sniper on earth that would trade a heavy steel barrel on a .50, .416, .375, or .338 for a light carbon fiber wrapped barrel as it would beat the hell out of them with every shot. Try looking at vrious felt recoil calculations and see how important the weight of the rifle is.

I'm not a fan of magnums in light platforms to start with but with the ultra low weight of the CF barrels felt recoil as compared to all steel barrels makes a huge difference.

The best made muzzle brake ever still can't compensate for an ultra low weight platform.

You said.... The best made muzzle brake ever still can't compensate for an ultra low weight platform.[/QUOTE]

LOL. I have to grossly disagree. If you have not tried one of the best muzzle brakes you don't know what you are missing. E-mail me and ill send you a video. I can shoot my 300 mag easily, all day like a varmint rifle, pretty much liek a sporter weight 223! It is ridiculous!

 

[WildRose]

You said.... The best made muzzle brake ever still can't compensate for an ultra low weight platform.

LOL. I have to grossly disagree. If you have not tried one of the best muzzle brakes you don't know what you are missing. E-mail me and ill send you a video. I can shoot my 300 mag easily, all day like a varmint rifle, pretty much liek a sporter weight 223! It is ridiculous!

Disagree all you want but the physics don't lie.

40-60% or more of felt recoil is due to what happens before the bullet ever gets to the end of the barrel.

First you have the equal an opposite effect of the weight of the bullet and pressure working in opposite directions, then comes the "jet effect".

The Jet Effect is the only portion of felt recoil that a brake can compensate for no matter how well designed it is.

 

[WildRose]

Oh man! I forgot that advice is always best when it's riddled with secondhand knowledge and silly logic.

Direct observation is not "second hand knowlege".

I'm glad you're happy with what you have, it doesn't translate to the experiences of the rest of those who have bought them.