Shot this whitetail today around 100 yards with a 6.5 PRC. Muzzle velocity with the 156 is around 3114. You can see both the entry hole and the exit hole. This deer didn't go another inch just dropped and twitched couple times and was done. First animal I've taken with the 156 and I'm happy so far.
156gr Berger EOL Elite Hunter Reviews
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I would stick with the 140s in it. Killed plenty of cow elk with the 140 Berger and 143 Hornady in 6.5x284. Not sure the Creed, unless you have a looonnnngggg barrel will get to the velocity you are going to need to get that to expand at the distance you want to shoot. just my 2c
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Not sure why people keep saying this about the creed, Berger says minimum is 1800 fps. Out of a 24-26" creed, at 7000 ft elevation, you stay above this threshold out to well over 1000 yards. Minimum velocity wouldn't be my concern
Oddly enough nowadays bullet performance is very subjective. As asked, to 400 or 500 yards the 156 will kill pretty much whatever you shoot with it provided you get anterior to the diaphragm. If you typically are happy with the effects of standard cup and core bullets you will like the 156. I don't think you will see much difference from the 147s, 143s, 140, 135s, or 130s. Not to over simplify it, but considering the times and your parameters, find a bullet your gun likes that you can get your hands on alot of right now and start killin stuff.
codyadams. minimum 1000 ft lbs is recommended for deer, 1500 for elk. back that thing up until you get to that number. Then consider that there are a crap ton of elk at way under that 7000 ft limit all over the US. So using al altitude that "justifies" a position is not doing the fella any justice. Maybe he's gonna hunt in the clearwater region of Idaho that is between 2000 and 4000ft.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Minimum ft lbs to kill stuff is from gun writers and salesman period, not even a number worthy of making any decision on!!
@codyadams suggested 1800 feet per second which is the manufacturer's lowest recommended speed for the bullet to open up. Different concept than foot pounds of energy.
Agreed that there are many of us who hunt below 7k feet, but it's pretty easy to find a ballistic calculator to look at performance for your specific elevation.
DNADave, my point was not that it wasn't possible, but that blanket statement that it can kill at x feet is not a way to answer this question. There have been a crapload of them killed by a .243 I'm sure; but a **** ton more injured or not harvested before meat spoiled with it I'd wager with marginal or inferior rounds because the hunter thought shot placement trumps power and got marginal performance and wonders why. How many of us would head to the woods with a .243 for elk? I a have a creed and am a fan of the 6.5s in general (I have many 6.5x284, Creed, a 260AI, straight 260), but I know their limitations. Expecting a prefect shot every time in all conditions with a bullet at the edge of it's performance envelope is a recipe for disaster.
I'm trying to see your point but in reading Cody's post, I see that he said at that elevation, the 1800 fps minimum velocity wouldn't be his concern. I'm going to deer hunt with the 156 out of my creed at 2,550 fps muzzle velocity and my elevation here in Indiana is about 880 feet. At 600 yards I'm at about 1,830 fps and still have over 1,150 ft-lbs of energy. I'd say that would kill a deer.
10-4. My 2,550 muzzle velocity at 880 feet wouldn't be a great long distance elk load then!
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Not sure where energy applies in this specific discussion, I never mentioned ft lbs, the only point I was referencing was about velocity, and that in your opinion, you wouldn't get enough out of a creed to expand at distance. I was simply saying that isn't the case, and can be based on factual data. Energy is a different discussion.
As far as elevation, here it is at roughly 5000 ft, max range for useable velocity for expansion per Berger over 900 yards -
And max range for expansion at roughly 1000 ft, over 800 yards.
As far as energy and other aspects of a shot, that is up for the individual shooter to decide. However the point being made here is very simple, it is about a known quantity - velocity needed for proper expansion. The solid number referenced is based from the bullet manufacturers recommendations that they came up with after doing ballistic testing of their bullets.
I'll elaborate on what I said in my previous post. Velocity (while of course a consideration) would not be my main concern in using a 156 out of a creed on elk. I would be more concerned with shot placement, the elks stance at the shot, the environmental conditions at the shot, avoiding the massive shoulder joint/bone that is larger than your fist, especially on a big bull, and a few other aspects. Useing under-dog cartridges to take large north American game is not a new thing, and is absolutely doable, however special considerations need to be taken prior to pulling the trigger, and one must realize that you may encounter a situation that you need to pass on a shot with your smaller cartridge that could be taken with a larger one. The way I look at it, using a .243, 6.5 creed, .260, or similar cartridge on elk, is similar to archery hunting elk. Avoid the heaviest bones, put the bullet in the heart/lungs, and it's a dead elk.
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Good lord, natives killed it with **** poor recurve bows in sinew and branches, arrowheads from chipped agates. Energy from that bow, maybe 50#. Today's bows are 300+ # energy. You're rifle as long as bullet is above min velocity for expansion will kill the animal. Want drop dead shot? Go high shoulder. The creedmoor case isn't designed for 156gr bullets, but rl26 with long freebore and a longer barrel will get the job done for sure. Me personally id go with 140gr bullets. Next week I'm going after elk with my 6.5 prc using 122gr copper solids @ 3275 fps. The BC is omg, only 300g7! I have a 338 rum, 300 norma improved, 300wsm, but this year I am doing it different. Show all my hunting partners that a 28 nosler or 300 rum isn't needed to drop elk. High shoulder shot will get it done. I also load this bullet in my nephews creed with Varget and get 2920 fps from his 20" barrel. My 24" barrel goes 3005 with dame load. That bullet has flat leveled all the antelope and deer that it's shot. Looking forward to the elk test.
