140gr Berger Elite Hunter issue. Anyone experience this?

[marksman1941]

View attachment 611055

I'm not going to argue with folks. Just trying to clarify what he was saying. If the man wants to deny proven physics, I'm not going to burst his happy little bubble.

 

[Cookie114]

Perfect performance. Very accurate and super quick kills. I do typically get a large exit wound on deer and Elk with the elite hunters. On the one or two that I didn't the remaining portion of the bullet was protruding right under the hide on the offside.

 

[MagnumManiac]

What a goon…………..
No bubble bursting here…………….

 

[Teri Anne]

140gr Berger elite hunter out of a 6.5prc. Hunting Cow elk but also had an either sex mule deer tag. Shot a doe at 110 yards. Perfectly through the ribs. Dropped like a stone. When I opened her up the entire internal cavity had been scrambled. Bullet came apart and the concussion combined with bullet fragments tore through the diaphragm. Gut material, plant bits and the like had sucked out the exit hole. I found gut material forced into the meat along the spine. Exit wound was the size of a quarter. Has anyone experienced this? Bullet was right behind the shoulders right through the middle. Scared to use these again if they do anything similar. Appreciate any thoughts. thanks

Over the years I have tried a lot of different bullets, some worked as advertised, many more left a lot to be desired either in accuracy or terminal performance. I shoot 223, 270, 308, 30-06, 300 wm, and 338 wm. Of all the bullets out there I have found that the only ones that meet both my very picky requirements have been Nosler and Sierra, with Nosler as my preferred, primarily because of the variety of bullet styles available in virtually all calibers, but a very close second is Sierra in the calibers that I shoot. My primary goals are accuracy and consistency. For example, with Nosler 30 caliber bullets, my loads of 165gr partition and 168 gr custom competition once sighted in, in either my Winchester Model 70 or Tikka T3 rifles can be fired interchangeably without any change in zero. Sierra 165gr match king also can be fired less than 1/4 moa change in zero in these rifles. My hunting choice is the Nosler partition across the board. All but one deer hit in the calibers I hunt deer with, Nosler partition dropped them in their tracks. I do have to admit that there was one exception. One doe shot at 50 yards with the 270 did manage a panic dash, but she only made it 10 yards before piling up. Your next question is, "What others have you tried?" Barnes, Berger, Hornady, to name a few, which, by the way, does include, the Hammers so loved by so many here. I will have to say that Hammers have proven themselves to be adequate, but not a shining star.

 

[ncwg2boatguy]

Bergers not misleading anyone, they tell you up front what its going to do. They are grenades that fly fast and straight and frag what they hit. If Im running a 6.5 PRC I probably opt for 156 EOL if you want more sectional density and bullet mass. May be the ticket @2950 fps which will hammer Elk.

 

[ncwg2boatguy]

Or just switch to Nosler AB give up some B.C they never fail and dont come apart. And they WILL exit.

 

[Greyfox]

Yes, I've experienced the effect you describe……I don't think this dynamic is necessarily associated only with the Berger's, and I've seen it occur with a variety of "popular" lead core hunting and target style bullets that are traveling at +3000FPS, connecting with game at the shorter ranges. I first experience it with 270W with a variety of different hunting bullets at 3000FPS back in the 70's. IMO, it's the trade-off one makes when shooting game at long range. That same bullet that can generally be accurately placed at close range in the center of "non-eatable" lung area to minimize meat damage may very well be the bullet that has the ballistic performance to retain its velocity/energy and effectively perform with desired expansion to cleanly kill game when placing the bullet in the broader vital area at long range.
The J4 Jacketed JLK 142gr bullets I use in my 6.5x284N will fragment, scramble, and suck out the lungs of deer at the shorter ranges…but….Look just like the "Deadliest Mushroom in the Woods" at 700+ yards with often DRT performance. Pick your poison!
With several dozen deer/antelope shot from 200 to 1200 yards this I have found the above to be the case. Below is one of several examples. This is a JLK 142'gr bullet(J4 jacket..G7BC .323) retrieved from the chest cavity of a quartering away Mulie at long range….The bullet retained 65% of its weight…….DRT.

 

[Gstew1930]

Sounds like it worked great

 

[ncwg2boatguy]

Yes, I've experienced the effect you describe……I don't think this dynamic is necessarily associated only with the Berger's, and I've seen it occur with a variety of "popular" lead core hunting and target style bullets that are traveling at +3000FPS, connecting with game at the shorter ranges. I first experience it with 270W with a variety of different hunting bullets at 3000FPS back in the 70's. IMO, it's the trade-off one makes when shooting game at long range. That same bullet that can generally be accurately placed at close range in the center of "non-eatable" lung area to minimize meat damage may very well be the bullet that has the ballistic performance to retain its velocity/energy and effectively perform with desired expansion to cleanly kill game when placing the bullet in the broader vital area at long range.
The J4 Jacketed JLK 142gr bullets I use in my 6.5x284N will fragment, scramble, and suck out the lungs of deer at the shorter ranges…but….Look just like the "Deadliest Mushroom in the Woods" at 700+ yards with often DRT performance. Pick your poison!
With several dozen deer/antelope shot from 200 to 1200 yards this I have found the above to be the case. Below is one of several examples. This is a JLK 142'gr bullet(J4 jacket..G7BC .323) retrieved from the chest cavity of a quartering away Mulie at long range….The bullet retained 65% of its weight…….DRT.
View attachment 611067

Same bullet I use in 6.5 Norma Magic

 

[lancetkenyon]

Shoots animal.
Drops on impact, dead.
Complains.

Weird.

 

[Cookie114]

Shoots animal.
Drops on impact, dead.
Complains.

Weird.

Yeah, it had me scratching my head as I was reading it. I had just gotten out of bed and thought maybe my brain wasn't processing it correctly.

 

[Beluebow]

Show me a bullet and I'll show someone on the internet that had a problem with it.


Here is a study/article on hydrostatic shock.....take from it what you will.

Hydrostatic shock

 

[Dmagna]

140gr Berger elite hunter out of a 6.5prc. Hunting Cow elk but also had an either sex mule deer tag. Shot a doe at 110 yards. Perfectly through the ribs. Dropped like a stone. When I opened her up the entire internal cavity had been scrambled. Bullet came apart and the concussion combined with bullet fragments tore through the diaphragm. Gut material, plant bits and the like had sucked out the exit hole. I found gut material forced into the meat along the spine. Exit wound was the size of a quarter. Has anyone experienced this? Bullet was right behind the shoulders right through the middle. Scared to use these again if they do anything similar. Appreciate any thoughts. thanks

This is why people like bergers, this is also why people hate them.

 

[Texis]

Yep.. same thing. Both myself and son in law went to Berger Classic Hunters and VLD in 308 and 708. We experienced the same terminal performance. Goes in by the shoulder, tears up diaphragm, guts, everything.
The Bergers spoil you on paper and when hand loading they are near dimensionally perfect, which makes for extreme consistency. The high BC of the VLDs extends the range.
I've switched to Accubond and Barnes for hunting rounds this year. They are not as dimensionally perfect and I find myself working harder to get the COAL / jump as precise, which is frustrating after loading Berger.